The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
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03-04-2017, 08:10 AM
RE: The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
(03-04-2017 08:06 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 09:59 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Physicians for a National Health Program advocate for a single payer system. I’m just reading now to get up to speed on the details.

"What is Single Payer?
Single-payer national health insurance, also known as “Medicare for all,” is a system in which a single public or quasi-public agency organizes health care financing, but the delivery of care remains largely in private hands. Under a single-payer system, all residents of the U.S. would be covered for all medically necessary services, including doctor, hospital, preventive, long-term care, mental health, reproductive health care, dental, vision, prescription drug and medical supply costs.

The program would be funded by the savings obtained from replacing today’s inefficient, profit-oriented, multiple insurance payers with a single streamlined, nonprofit, public payer, and by modest new taxes based on ability to pay. Premiums would disappear; 95 percent of all households would save money. Patients would no longer face financial barriers to care such as co-pays and deductibles, and would regain free choice of doctor and hospital. Doctors would regain autonomy over patient care.

The Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, H.R. 676, based on PNHP’s AJPH-published Physicians’ Proposal, would establish an American single-payer health insurance system.”

FAQ regarding how it works.

Just playing the devil's advocate here...

The amount of savings realized from reduced administrative costs is a huge assumption here. For one thing a large part of those administrative costs are driven by government regulation. Those requirements aren't going to go away just because the government starts paying for everything.

Another question is can our government administer such a system any more efficiently than private industry? I can't remember anyone accusing the US government of being particularly efficient lately.

Who exactly is going to administer the system anyway? Making it a government program doesn't necessarily mean government employees are the ones processing the claims.

What happens to all the people currently processing claims for providers and insurance companies? How many of them can go to work in the new system? How many of them are going to be unemployed? What happens to the pension funds for all the people currently working for the insurance companies once their employers go out of business?

I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't have such a system. I am saying we should probably spend a few billion dollars coming up with a comprehensive plan on how to best implement it so we will have a good idea of what it is going to cost, and what the end effect is going to be.

These are not assumptions, they are shown to work by every single-payer system in the civilized world, i.e. everyone but the U.S.

Of course, the U.S. Congress could fuck it up. Consider

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03-04-2017, 08:15 AM
RE: The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
(03-04-2017 08:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  Of course, the U.S. Congress could fuck it up.

Yes they could.

Still doesn't answer the question about how does making it a system administered by the government help save administrative costs when a large part of the current administrative costs are driven by government administrative requirements.

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03-04-2017, 08:17 AM
RE: The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
(03-04-2017 08:06 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  ...
I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't have such a system. I am saying we should probably spend a few billion dollars coming up with a comprehensive plan on how to best implement it so we will have a good idea of what it is going to cost, and what the end effect is going to be.

Or you get a small working party to check out all the existing systems and analysis the pros and cons of the design, the transition phase and the on-going operations.

It's not like there hasn't been a (to use a technical term) fuck-ton of trees that have died to provide paper for all the books, Phds and news articles written on the subject in the last 105 years.

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03-04-2017, 08:20 AM
RE: The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
(03-04-2017 08:15 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 08:10 AM)Chas Wrote:  Of course, the U.S. Congress could fuck it up.

Yes they could.

Still doesn't answer the question about how does making it a system administered by the government help save administrative costs when a large part of the current administrative costs are driven by government administrative requirements.

A single payer system is streamlined and much cheaper to operate, much more efficient.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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03-04-2017, 08:20 AM
RE: The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
(03-04-2017 08:06 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(02-04-2017 09:59 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Physicians for a National Health Program advocate for a single payer system. I’m just reading now to get up to speed on the details.

"What is Single Payer?
Single-payer national health insurance, also known as “Medicare for all,” is a system in which a single public or quasi-public agency organizes health care financing, but the delivery of care remains largely in private hands. Under a single-payer system, all residents of the U.S. would be covered for all medically necessary services, including doctor, hospital, preventive, long-term care, mental health, reproductive health care, dental, vision, prescription drug and medical supply costs.

The program would be funded by the savings obtained from replacing today’s inefficient, profit-oriented, multiple insurance payers with a single streamlined, nonprofit, public payer, and by modest new taxes based on ability to pay. Premiums would disappear; 95 percent of all households would save money. Patients would no longer face financial barriers to care such as co-pays and deductibles, and would regain free choice of doctor and hospital. Doctors would regain autonomy over patient care.

The Expanded and Improved Medicare for All Act, H.R. 676, based on PNHP’s AJPH-published Physicians’ Proposal, would establish an American single-payer health insurance system.”

FAQ regarding how it works.

Just playing the devil's advocate here...

The amount of savings realized from reduced administrative costs is a huge assumption here. For one thing a large part of those administrative costs are driven by government regulation. Those requirements aren't going to go away just because the government starts paying for everything.

Another question is can our government administer such a system any more efficiently than private industry? I can't remember anyone accusing the US government of being particularly efficient lately.

Who exactly is going to administer the system anyway? Making it a government program doesn't necessarily mean government employees are the ones processing the claims.

What happens to all the people currently processing claims for providers and insurance companies? How many of them can go to work in the new system? How many of them are going to be unemployed? What happens to the pension funds for all the people currently working for the insurance companies once their employers go out of business?

I'm not saying we can't or shouldn't have such a system. I am saying we should probably spend a few billion dollars coming up with a comprehensive plan on how to best implement it so we will have a good idea of what it is going to cost, and what the end effect is going to be.
Not only that, how many other peoples pension funds are invested in shares in insurance companies?
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03-04-2017, 08:43 AM
RE: The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
(03-04-2017 08:20 AM)ukatheist Wrote:  Not only that, how many other peoples pension funds are invested in shares in insurance companies?

Unless you belong to one of those insurance companies and get stock options of the company thus skewing your portfolio heavily towards that one particular stock then probably not much.

If your retirement savings are invested in balanced fund/target date fund the percent holding per company is usually less than 0.5% of the total stock portfolio. A proper allocation by these funds would not have you over exposed to any one company or any one sector.

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03-04-2017, 09:01 AM
RE: The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
(03-04-2017 08:20 AM)Dom Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 08:15 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  Yes they could.

Still doesn't answer the question about how does making it a system administered by the government help save administrative costs when a large part of the current administrative costs are driven by government administrative requirements.

A single payer system is streamlined and much cheaper to operate, much more efficient.

A single payer system could be streamlined and much cheaper to operate, much more efficient.

There's nothing inherent in a single payer system that makes it more efficient. Especially one administered by our government. They don't exactly have a reputation for streamlining and efficiency. It has to be made more efficient. I'm asking what the plan is to make it so, and what are the repercussions to the rest of the economy?

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03-04-2017, 09:52 AM
RE: The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
(03-04-2017 07:15 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Hey! We ‘Murikans might be slow to the party but once we get there we’re the first ones to put the lampshade on our heads. You just remember that Mr. Smarty Pants. Angry

Winston Churchill once said, “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”

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03-04-2017, 10:07 AM
RE: The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
(03-04-2017 09:01 AM)Popeyes Pappy Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 08:20 AM)Dom Wrote:  A single payer system is streamlined and much cheaper to operate, much more efficient.

A single payer system could be streamlined and much cheaper to operate, much more efficient.

There's nothing inherent in a single payer system that makes it more efficient. Especially one administered by our government. They don't exactly have a reputation for streamlining and efficiency. It has to be made more efficient. I'm asking what the plan is to make it so, and what are the repercussions to the rest of the economy?

Like someone already stated - there are examples everywhere. The US only needs to look at all the other western countries who have had this system for decades - running smoothly as can. We are the only Western people who can not afford to go to the doctor or buy our meds, it seems.

Not for the lack of examples of how to do it. It's old, tried and true and easy to learn about.

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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03-04-2017, 12:17 PM
RE: The new healthcare plan is here! The new health care plan is here!
(03-04-2017 09:52 AM)Jay Vogelsong Wrote:  
(03-04-2017 07:15 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Hey! We ‘Murikans might be slow to the party but once we get there we’re the first ones to put the lampshade on our heads. You just remember that Mr. Smarty Pants. Angry

Winston Churchill once said, “You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing after they have tried everything else.”

Hobo

I hear that Mr. Churchill as well as Mr. Frederick Douglass have been doing good things lately.Angel

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