The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
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28-02-2013, 03:10 PM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
(28-02-2013 03:07 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  See, I think you have it backward in your original post.

I have already seen that you're familiar with Occam's Razor, so consider this.

God is pretty freaking awesome. I think I can safely say that any being with all the knowledge in the universe, down to knowing what every atom is doing at every nanosecond, everywhere, has a very complex mind indeed. Any being with enough power to blink the universe into existence with just a few words has a very complex physiology (or spirituality) indeed.

On the other hand, a hydrogen atom is just about the simplest thing in the universe. Some of the smaller particles that make up a hydrogen atom are even simpler.

So, apply Occam's Razor:

Which seems more likely?
Somehow there existed a supreme being, omniscient (even though the universe didn't exist yet so there was absolutely nothing for him to know) and omnipotent (even though the universe didn't exist yet so there was nothing for him to do with this omnipotence), perfect, the most complex thing imaginable. Then one day he decided to make a universe.

or

Somehow there was hydrogen in the universe, just about the simplest thing imaginable.

Seems to me that Occam's Razor is pretty clear on which is more likely.

Makes sense.

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28-02-2013, 03:38 PM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
I don't know if you'd be able to find it, but I feel like there may have been an episode of "Through the Wormhole" that dealt with this. I feel like there is science that deals with nothingness.
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01-03-2013, 09:47 PM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
(27-02-2013 11:28 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I'll let Lawrence Krauss explain it for me, for I am not an astronomer nor theoretical physicist.
Krauss uses a different definition of nothing then most theist. Krauss should have titled his book, "A universe from a pre-existing framework of physical laws"... But then it wouldn't appeal to atheist.
What's ironic is that many theist believe God made the universe out of nothing and now Krauss has validated their beliefs.

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02-03-2013, 01:58 AM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
(27-02-2013 11:13 PM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  Ok maybe this has been discussed in another thread but this is my thought I can understand just about every single thing that I have learned about atheism evolution ect but their is 1 thing 1 thing that keeps me wondering all the time its the big one....How did something come from nothing? So ik we could also say ok where did God come from but I will admit it makes more sense to me that a God would be their and create it then thinking how something came from nothing I could really use some help here cause this is the one thing that's eating at me about all this.

How does the moon cause gravity? It just makes more sense to me that a god does it. Why do earthquakes and hurricanes occur? It just makes more sense to me that they are god's wrath. How did humans come to exist on this planet? God must have put us here.

You could say the same thing about anything for the same reason. It's an inaccurate placeholder to give us mental closure. It doesn't solve anything. Stop thinking about the problem in such black and white, theist terms. Science never claimed that something came from nothing. They surmised that following the expanding, cooling universe back along a timeline would bring us to a compact, heated point of energy. No one has really made a valid claim as to anything before that because we can't hope to know the state of that sort of situation. Human beings are relatively stupid organisms. Our brains just aren't capable of imagining things like what it's like outside the boundaries of the expanding universe, the concept of infinite, or an existence without time and space. "Big man creature use magic and make moon and sun" is caveman logic. We're better than that as a species.

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02-03-2013, 02:10 AM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
People who say this shit ain't thinking about nothing, they're thinking about absence of something. Use yer fucking noggin. If this posting space was filled with answers, where's the room to ask the question? It's not "something coming from nothing," it's everything coming from nothing, when nothing means absence.

That being said, we don't know nothing about nothing. All we know is thingness... and Tao. And if you knew some fucking Tao, you wouldn't ask such an asinine question. Tongue

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02-03-2013, 05:36 AM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
(28-02-2013 03:10 PM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  
(28-02-2013 03:07 AM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  See, I think you have it backward in your original post.

I have already seen that you're familiar with Occam's Razor, so consider this.

God is pretty freaking awesome. I think I can safely say that any being with all the knowledge in the universe, down to knowing what every atom is doing at every nanosecond, everywhere, has a very complex mind indeed. Any being with enough power to blink the universe into existence with just a few words has a very complex physiology (or spirituality) indeed.

On the other hand, a hydrogen atom is just about the simplest thing in the universe. Some of the smaller particles that make up a hydrogen atom are even simpler.

So, apply Occam's Razor:

Which seems more likely?
Somehow there existed a supreme being, omniscient (even though the universe didn't exist yet so there was absolutely nothing for him to know) and omnipotent (even though the universe didn't exist yet so there was nothing for him to do with this omnipotence), perfect, the most complex thing imaginable. Then one day he decided to make a universe.

or

Somehow there was hydrogen in the universe, just about the simplest thing imaginable.

Seems to me that Occam's Razor is pretty clear on which is more likely.

Makes sense.
In which case, this question should no longer stop you in your tracks.

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03-03-2013, 10:30 PM (This post was last modified: 04-03-2013 10:26 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
(01-03-2013 09:47 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(27-02-2013 11:28 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  I'll let Lawrence Krauss explain it for me, for I am not an astronomer nor theoretical physicist.
Krauss uses a different definition of nothing then most theist. Krauss should have titled his book, "A universe from a pre-existing framework of physical laws"... But then it wouldn't appeal to atheist.
What's ironic is that many theist believe God made the universe out of nothing and now Krauss has validated their beliefs.


I'm sorry, I must have missed the part of the talk when Krauss tells us that your God spoke the universe into existence... Drinking Beverage

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08-03-2013, 06:36 AM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
The Atheist model of the universe does provide a really big "divide by zero" error at the beginning, so they just kind of ignore it and hope no one will notice.

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08-03-2013, 07:53 AM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
(08-03-2013 06:36 AM)AtheismExposed Wrote:  The Atheist model of the universe does provide a really big "divide by zero" error at the beginning, so they just kind of ignore it and hope no one will notice.


First, there is no 'atheist model of the universe'.
Second, scientists do not know what the beginning was but have theories about it. No divide by zero.
Third, it is far from being ignored.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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08-03-2013, 08:16 AM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
Come on PoeExposed.

It's too late at night for me to be laughing.

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