The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
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14-03-2013, 11:44 AM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
(27-02-2013 11:13 PM)ChuckTesta Wrote:  Ok maybe this has been discussed in another thread but this is my thought I can understand just about every single thing that I have learned about atheism evolution ect but their is 1 thing 1 thing that keeps me wondering all the time its the big one....How did something come from nothing? So ik we could also say ok where did God come from but I will admit it makes more sense to me that a God would be their and create it then thinking how something came from nothing I could really use some help here cause this is the one thing that's eating at me about all this.
Why does it make more sense to you that God is the creator? Consider

You seemed to skip right over "ok where did God come from", but that's a very relevant question. In fact, it's the very same question - "how did something come from nothing". The only way that God makes sense as an explanation is to assume God always existed as many religions do. But does that make any more sense? Not to me. How can something have always existed?

Here's where I'm at:
Either something always existed (or at least always existed until something else came into existence) or there was a time when nothing existed. Neither seems to make sense, but I'm pretty sure one of those must be true.

If something always existed, what is that something? I don't know and nobody knows. Some assume it's "God", but without specific evidence, that's a completely arbitrary assumption. I'm more comfortable with no assumption.

On the other hand, if there was a time when nothing existed, then at some point something DID come from nothing. That doesn't make sense either. But if true, what was that first something? Was it "God" or was it something else? Again, some assume "God", but by the same reasoning as above, I'm more comfortable with no assumption.

So yes, there are some difficult questions currently without answers. One can insert "God" randomly to feel more comfortable or one can live with the discomfort of "we don't know" which, at least to me, is actually not so uncomfortable. At least it's intellectually honest.

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
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14-03-2013, 11:56 AM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
(08-03-2013 06:36 AM)AtheismExposed Wrote:  The Atheist model of the universe does provide a really big "divide by zero" error at the beginning, so they just kind of ignore it and hope no one will notice.
Let's set aside for the moment that there is no such thing as an "atheist" model of anything, since atheism is not a belief system, what I really think you meant is the scientific model.

Your so-called "divide by zero error" is just as applicable to God. Nobody knows where god came from or why or how such a magnificent being could exist before there was even a place for him to exist in, so theists just kind of ignore it and hope no one will notice.

I don't see the difference.

If you can believe that god just always existed and not bother to provide any hint of an idea as to how or why this is possible, I don't see why scientists cannot do the same thing with the universe. One or the other always existed, in some way or another, and not one human being alive has any clue how to explain either one.

So before you call the scientific kettle "black", you might want to consider that the theistic pot is equally "black".

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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16-03-2013, 08:07 AM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
For some reason this reminded me of the Penn & Teller: Bullshit episode on signs from heaven. It's on Youtube. You won't be disappointed watching any of their stuff. Anyways, there's this girl, Audrey Santo, who had a drowning accident when she was three. Her family keeps on her life support and have her surrounded by religious statues, art, etc. They keep her on display and people come from around the world to see her, touch her, and whatnot. I find it disgusting. Besides that, they claim the religious art pieces sweat. The sweat was tested and discovered to be a combination of vegetable oil and chicken fat. They sell the sweat, sell t-shirts and mousepads and buttons, and make money off of their comatose, brain dead daughter. In the same episode, we see the virgin Mary toast and these people who think Jesus has blessed their bathroom door. Anyways, they really believe this stuff! They claim to feel moved by it all. Just because it feels like the universe couldn't have been produced via the Big Bang, that god must've done it, doesn't make it fact. That's where indoctrination comes about, if you grew up in church. You'll have doubts and question your own atheism because for so long you believed this junk at one point. It's hard to let go of, but you can believe in creation "science" all you want and it will never hold water, not with all we know now.

Keep your rosaries out of my ovaries, and your theology out of my biology.
"If you could reason with religious people, there would be no religious people." --Dr. House
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16-03-2013, 01:10 PM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
(28-02-2013 07:09 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is also the fact the we don't know the answer.

It seems to me that so many people can't live with "we don't know" so they insert some easy answer.

The idea of a god creating everything is an easy answer, but has the logical problem of regress.

We are working on answering origin questions; we have ideas, hypotheses, but we don't yet have an answer.

Sorry, we just have to accept that.

I totally get what you're saying...the god idea is totally like hitting the easy button. I just completely fail to understsnd how otherwise literate, intelligent people fail to see this. I can completely understsnd the Ray Comforts out there raking in the big bucks hawking their brand of snake oil...what I don't understsnd is how gullible people are to follow it.


Wind's in the east, a mist coming in
Like something is brewing and about to begin
Can't put my finger on what lies in store
but I feel what's to happen has happened before...


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17-03-2013, 09:33 PM
RE: The one thing that always stops me in my tracks
(16-03-2013 01:10 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(28-02-2013 07:09 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is also the fact the we don't know the answer.

It seems to me that so many people can't live with "we don't know" so they insert some easy answer.

The idea of a god creating everything is an easy answer, but has the logical problem of regress.

We are working on answering origin questions; we have ideas, hypotheses, but we don't yet have an answer.

Sorry, we just have to accept that.

I totally get what you're saying...the god idea is totally like hitting the easy button. I just completely fail to understsnd how otherwise literate, intelligent people fail to see this. I can completely understsnd the Ray Comforts out there raking in the big bucks hawking their brand of snake oil...what I don't understsnd is how gullible people are to follow it.





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