Poll: After I asked myself the biggest "Question" there is.
It shook my faith
It strengthened my faith or led me to it
It had no impact of my faith/lack of faith
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The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
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13-02-2014, 06:12 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2014 06:58 PM by sporehux.)
The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
" what is the Meaning of life, how could god come from nothing, how could the big bang come from nothing, can something come from nothing, was there always something to come from and how is that possible. "
Current human brain development cannot perceive of something that did not originate from something else, not even theists as they dodge the question.

Where were you when you asked yourself this question (or variation of it),
Did your mind go BOOM like mine, did it shake your faith, strengthen it or lead you to it.

I was a theist (prayed at my bed every night), and after talking to a friend about a scifi book we read, it just hit me like a truck in the middle of English class (yr9),
HOW COULD GOD COME FROM NOTHING ?, the logic of everything I thought I knew as a Christian crumbled from this point, "Nobody knows" became rooted in my brain, people I trusted I could now see they were clueless about origin.

Questions in religious class went unanswered, a hostility became apparent, "Just Believe on faith, or else there will be trouble"

I'm confident this was the epiphany moment in my life that broke my indoctrination.
was wondering if everyone else considers the "question" as so important to them.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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13-02-2014, 06:28 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
I believe something is the fundamental nature of the universe. "Nothing" is an artificial human concept based on sensory illusion.

We may call this something god - but then there is no distinction between this something, the universe and us, so it's kind of a lousy god concept. It could be equally called existence and energy.

The "somethingness of the universe" is ultimately more logical, because thanks to Occam's razor it invokes less principles to get the job done. If the universe started from nothing into something, then we have two states and transitions, back and forth.

I have never believed in nothing. I was always aware there is something - there is more in existence than we know, what we don't know is inherently greater than what we know. So we always expand from lesser to the greater, there is no exhaustion or nothingness possible. Here and now on Earth is as difficult and empty as it ever gets.

A believer in reincarnation and spiritual worlds would say, right now we are as dead and unaware as we ever get. It can only get better.
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13-02-2014, 06:47 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(13-02-2014 06:28 PM)Luminon Wrote:  I believe something is the fundamental nature of the universe. "Nothing" is an artificial human concept based on sensory illusion.

We may call this something god - but then there is no distinction between this something, the universe and us, so it's kind of a lousy god concept. It could be equally called existence and energy.

The "somethingness of the universe" is ultimately more logical, because thanks to Occam's razor it invokes less principles to get the job done. If the universe started from nothing into something, then we have two states and transitions, back and forth.

I have never believed in nothing. I was always aware there is something - there is more in existence than we know, what we don't know is inherently greater than what we know. So we always expand from lesser to the greater, there is no exhaustion or nothingness possible. Here and now on Earth is as difficult and empty as it ever gets.

A believer in reincarnation and spiritual worlds would say, right now we are as dead and unaware as we ever get. It can only get better.

I'm really set on "we just don't know yet", and its just wishful thinking and Woo to assume otherwise.
Hypothesis yes, the more the better. But to say "I believe, -multi verses, quantum woo is equally ego trippy as theism/deism.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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13-02-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
I got the answer from watching Star Trek. Oh gospel of Star Trek, you have yet to lead me astray.
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13-02-2014, 07:31 PM (This post was last modified: 13-02-2014 07:35 PM by Rahn127.)
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
We have a something (this universe) and all of the parts of the universe (galaxies and such) are all moving away from each other and that expansion is accelerating.
Reversing the motion, we have all of the matter in the universe converging into one point, one location.

In ^that ^, where is this nothing you're talking about ?

Has anyone ever proposed the idea that if you gathered together all the matter and energy of the entire universe into one spot that you would get nothing as a result ?
Does that make any sense ?

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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13-02-2014, 07:49 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(13-02-2014 07:31 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  We have a something (this universe) and all of the parts of the universe (galaxies and such) are all moving away from each other and that expansion is accelerating.
Reversing the motion, we have all of the matter in the universe converging into one point, one location.

In ^that ^, where is this nothing you're talking about ?

Has anyone ever proposed the idea that if you gathered together all the matter and energy of the entire universe into one spot that you would get nothing as a result ?
Does that make any sense ?

That is logical, its the point in time or the lack of a point in time before that. that is the question.
1>What preceded what we assume happened from a scientific point of view.
2>And or what preceded the GOD of the gaps if you swing that way.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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13-02-2014, 08:26 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
It's possible that nothing does not exist.
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13-02-2014, 09:33 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
I was told God had always existed... While my mind did get slightly fucked, I was too young to give a shit. I suppose later it was one of the things that bugged me.

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14-02-2014, 12:50 AM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
I don't think there is a paradox. I think we just don't know the cause. I remember thinking about these questions a lot when I was very young and I remember the feeling of total helplessness I had like running into an invisible wall. I can think about it now without getting a headache. I can conceive of something existing without a cause and being eternal in one form or another. I can conceive of our Universe being being one small part of a much larger universe. I read somewhere that the actual size may be thousands of times bigger than what we can see. That is mind boggling. Of course just because I can conceive of something doesn't make it true. For now I see no reason to believe that something hasn't always existed and the current state of the Universe is just one iteration in an ever changing cycle. I am perfectly happy to say I don't know and may never know, not that I wouldn't love to know.

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14-02-2014, 01:03 AM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(14-02-2014 12:50 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  I don't think there is a paradox. I think we just don't know the cause. I remember thinking about these questions a lot when I was very young and I remember the feeling of total helplessness I had like running into an invisible wall. I can think about it now without getting a headache. I can conceive of something existing without a cause and being eternal in one form or another. I can conceive of our Universe being being one small part of a much larger universe. I read somewhere that the actual size may be thousands of times bigger than what we can see. That is mind boggling. Of course just because I can conceive of something doesn't make it true. For now I see no reason to believe that something hasn't always existed and the current state of the Universe is just one iteration in an ever changing cycle. I am perfectly happy to say I don't know and may never know, not that I wouldn't love to know.

Pretty much on par with my thoughts, would have brain cramps when I was younger trying to reconcile the origin of God , until later discovering the overwhelming evidence for man as the creator.
Leaving the origin of the big bang in its place.
Laurence Kraus/ time expansion/ quantum mech/ dark matter/energy.
Are making it easier to accept the idea that there was always something, but my brain is not receptive .

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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