Poll: After I asked myself the biggest "Question" there is.
It shook my faith
It strengthened my faith or led me to it
It had no impact of my faith/lack of faith
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The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
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14-02-2014, 07:55 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(14-02-2014 11:45 AM)toadaly Wrote:  
(14-02-2014 09:58 AM)bemore Wrote:  1: The universe is breathing. Matter does not escape black holes but is somehow condensed and trapped within them. Over an infinite amount of time all stars collapse and become black holes and eventually they all consume one another (metaphorically breathing in) Once all matter and black holes are (or to a certain point)consumed, an event happens which releases all of the matter (metaphorically breathing outwards). Its is an endless cycle.

I seem to recall that Hawking recently showed that black holes do not have an event horizon, and that the implication of that, would be very profound from the perspective of our understanding of cosmology.

As far as I know Hawking hasn't shown anything yet, but merely presented a short paper presenting an idea that replaces an event horizon with an apparent horizon.




Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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14-02-2014, 09:27 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
Its seems the only wrong answer is to have an answer.
At least until Krauss gets his shit together.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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15-02-2014, 08:22 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(13-02-2014 06:12 PM)sporehux Wrote:  " what is the Meaning of life, how could god come from nothing, how could the big bang come from nothing, can something come from nothing, was there always something to come from and how is that possible. "
Current human brain development cannot perceive of something that did not originate from something else, not even theists as they dodge the question.

Where were you when you asked yourself this question (or variation of it),
Did your mind go BOOM like mine, did it shake your faith, strengthen it or lead you to it.

I was a theist (prayed at my bed every night), and after talking to a friend about a scifi book we read, it just hit me like a truck in the middle of English class (yr9),
HOW COULD GOD COME FROM NOTHING ?, the logic of everything I thought I knew as a Christian crumbled from this point, "Nobody knows" became rooted in my brain, people I trusted I could now see they were clueless about origin.

Questions in religious class went unanswered, a hostility became apparent, "Just Believe on faith, or else there will be trouble"

I'm confident this was the epiphany moment in my life that broke my indoctrination.
was wondering if everyone else considers the "question" as so important to them.

God is eternal always did live always will. God isn't of this universe, therefore is not subject to its laws.
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15-02-2014, 08:39 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(15-02-2014 08:22 PM)goldenmustache Wrote:  God is eternal always did live always will. God isn't of this universe, therefore is not subject to its laws.

Right, so the deity always existed....hence has no beginning and no end..and it's outside of all of existence then where is the evidence of said outside entity interacting with said reality?

IF said deity is outsied of time and space....how does one know what the deity actually is?

*Bows down and prepares to offer self to their tentacly overlords.*

“Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."
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15-02-2014, 08:45 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(15-02-2014 08:39 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(15-02-2014 08:22 PM)goldenmustache Wrote:  God is eternal always did live always will. God isn't of this universe, therefore is not subject to its laws.

Right, so the deity always existed....hence has no beginning and no end..and it's outside of all of existence then where is the evidence of said outside entity interacting with said reality?

IF said deity is outsied of time and space....how does one know what the deity actually is?

*Bows down and prepares to offer self to their tentacly overlords.*

“Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn."

The bible? not quite sure what you are trying to say.
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15-02-2014, 08:56 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(15-02-2014 08:45 PM)goldenmustache Wrote:  The bible? not quite sure what you are trying to say.

So...how/why is the Bible any better than any other work of divinity?
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15-02-2014, 09:11 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(15-02-2014 08:56 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(15-02-2014 08:45 PM)goldenmustache Wrote:  The bible? not quite sure what you are trying to say.

So...how/why is the Bible any better than any other work of divinity?

Duh. The Bible says so.

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15-02-2014, 09:14 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
And Unicorns exist per Harry Potter.

The bible is proof that people know how to make up stories and write them down, then copy them, then make errors while copying and then making up new stuff they like and removing stuff they don't like.

Once you know how the book was put together, you won't see it as holy anymore. You'll see it for what it is. A book of stories

Nothing more

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15-02-2014, 09:49 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(14-02-2014 04:23 PM)cjlr Wrote:  Which need only imply that certain ways of looking at things are inextricably foundational to our perceptions.

We are limitted by such things. If 'nothing' is not consistent within the framework of the tools we have, then it isn't a concept at all. Talking about nothing, is literally and philosophically, not talking about anything, if it isn't consistent.

Quote:The universe doesn't behave according to human laws. Human laws are a description of the universe.

In regard to the axioms of logic, this is not obvious. They seem to be so fundamental, that not only do we never observe them being violated, but we can not even imagine it. It's *possible* that logic is only a human construct - some wierd quirk in our brain construction that makes all our experiences consistent, but if so, then attempting to talk about something that doens't fit in there, like 'nothing', still makes no sense.

Quote:I don't know; attempting to reason out minimum possible states has been fairly fruitful.

In 'possible worlds' semantics, the minimum possible world, must neverthess include the axioms of logic.

Quote:
(14-02-2014 04:17 PM)toadaly Wrote:  But ok, imagine if you will, nothing. Since noncontradiction does not apply there...

Why?

Because it's not anything, not even the axioms of logic. ...unless you qualify it to include them. But suppose you do. Ok now you have a 'possible world', that contains nothing except logic. You can't get from that to here, because even in that world, time does not exist, so to get from nothing to something, requires that something exist, which is still a contradiction.

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15-02-2014, 09:57 PM
RE: The origin paradox. "something from nothing"
(15-02-2014 08:22 PM)goldenmustache Wrote:  God is eternal always did live always will. God isn't of this universe, therefore is not subject to its laws.

If there is a deity he set my brain to question his existence which includes his origin.
maybe GOD has NFI where he came from, so is getting monkeys to figure it out for him.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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