The parting of the Red Sea
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-07-2016, 10:38 AM
RE: The parting of the Red Sea
(21-07-2016 08:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(21-07-2016 07:43 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  There's something I don't understand about the supposed Jewish exodus from Egypt.

Hhere his honly hone hthing hto hunderstand habout hthe Hexodus.
Hit hnever happened.

The Egyptians controlled the entire Near East at the time. There was no "escaping" from them merely by moving from one place they controlled, to another place they controlled.
It is/was a myth.




http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ble-Bull-s

You shouldn't make fun of people with cleft palates.

I don't, of course, believe that the Red Sea was parted. I don't have a problem with the idea that some people left the area of the Nile Delta and settled in Judea, taking their religion, whatever it was, with them.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 10:57 AM
RE: The parting of the Red Sea
It is a myth, just like the fantastic claims any comic book makes. I don't get stuck on the stupid alleged details of a holy book, it still does not make magic real nor does it make sky wizards real. It is an old book of myth, and that's it. There is no scientific way or even moral way to justify the absurdities of that story or any other in that book. It was understandable back then that those stories were written and others bought them, because they were ignorant to the nature of reality, but we know better now. The story is written like that the same reason all religions write their own stories. Religion is written to promote the club and glorify the heros. But it is all still myth.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Brian37's post
25-07-2016, 10:59 AM
RE: The parting of the Red Sea
There's a man at the end of the video who says how important Deuteronomy is in being an end of tradition, not creating tradition. He says this is,

"the mindset upon which science, and monotheism and western civilization" has been founded.

So, according to this video, we owe everything in science and all our western civilization to agriculturalists in Judea who figured that there was a god who could tell their rulers what to do. All of our secular views are reliant on monotheism and Yahweh.

I think not.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: The parting of the Red Sea
None of this makes any sense to me, not that I particularly care. I watched most of the video and I'll watch it all when I have a free hour and a half. Thanks.

The problem I have with it is this portrays a Judaism which is very much in keeping with what we think of it being today, I suppose. Perhaps that's too much of a precis but the two speakers near the end seem to suggest that we owe everything to this religion and what we have really stems from Judaism.

But even if one finds themes in Deuteronomy which are reflected in later more enlightened ages, to what extent does this reflect the religion, or, more appropriately, cult which the Jesus story is set against. The backdrop of the NT is a society in which people were expecting a messiah and the story is woven into Egyptian, Horus myths, just as Hamlet was in Elizabethan times. To what extent was Deuteronomy actually reflective of the religious and cultural practices of people in Judea in the time of Jesus, when the Romans fought with the Jews and conquered Judea.

So, again, we seem to have a big myth, the evacuation of Jews from Egypt. Never happened. Judaism sprung up as a populist egalitarian movement among agriculturalists. ??? Sounds like ancient revisionism.

I am going to stop now and not post until I watch the video properly.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 11:16 AM
RE: The parting of the Red Sea
(22-07-2016 09:50 AM)SYZ Wrote:  
(21-07-2016 01:56 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  God was afraid of the Philistines...

Dunno why... most people I've met from the Pacific islands have been more than friendly.

Admit it. You're a republican. Your grasp of geography gives it away!

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-07-2016, 11:19 AM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2016 11:30 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The parting of the Red Sea
(25-07-2016 10:38 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(21-07-2016 08:34 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Hhere his honly hone hthing hto hunderstand habout hthe Hexodus.
Hit hnever happened.

The Egyptians controlled the entire Near East at the time. There was no "escaping" from them merely by moving from one place they controlled, to another place they controlled.
It is/was a myth.




http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ble-Bull-s

You shouldn't make fun of people with cleft palates.

I don't, of course, believe that the Red Sea was parted. I don't have a problem with the idea that some people left the area of the Nile Delta and settled in Judea, taking their religion, whatever it was, with them.

That's nice. But's that's not what happened. There were Semites already settled in Canaan. There is no evidence for an "exodus" event.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Bucky Ball's post
25-07-2016, 02:12 PM
RE: The parting of the Red Sea
I haven't read all the above, but have scanned most of it, one of my favorite laughs comes from when one says that the Son of God is confused with the Sun God, as if the two were both presented in the same language where the two are close to each other in pronunciation, and the same goes with saying people got mixed up between the reed sea and the Red Sea due to one extra letter. Folks, the English language was not in existence when these fairy tales were invented.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Born Again Pagan's post
26-07-2016, 05:59 AM
RE: The parting of the Red Sea
(25-07-2016 11:19 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 10:38 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  You shouldn't make fun of people with cleft palates.

I don't, of course, believe that the Red Sea was parted. I don't have a problem with the idea that some people left the area of the Nile Delta and settled in Judea, taking their religion, whatever it was, with them.

That's nice. But's that's not what happened. There were Semites already settled in Canaan. There is no evidence for an "exodus" event.


Let's just agree for once that I accept that the events in Exodus are just a story. I have a couple of issues arising out of that.

1. Is it also your view that there was no expulsion of the Hyksos as stated by Josephus? Certainly if one googles the words, it comes up with lots about the subject including Wiki articles which are generally based on peer-reviewed works. Josephus clearly states that there was an expulsion and that they built Jerusalem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos

2. If you dispute both Exodus and Josephus, is that because by accepting any validity to them at all, you have to accept there may be a possibility that the identity of the "Jews" is not as it is now thought and that they were, in fact, Armenians?

You see where I am coming from. Does one make history accord with what one wants the answer to be or does one accept that these things are said and then consider their consequences, regardless of whether they raise questions which might be inconvenient?

There is atheism, and then there is nihilism, where everything ever written is a myth, and I'm not sure I am prepared to accept that all human knowledge about these things is so fundamentally flawed if it isn't written down on paper, that we can't look at any legend or story and try to see if there is something real behind it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-07-2016, 06:22 AM
RE: The parting of the Red Sea
(26-07-2016 05:59 AM)Deltabravo Wrote:  
(25-07-2016 11:19 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  That's nice. But's that's not what happened. There were Semites already settled in Canaan. There is no evidence for an "exodus" event.


Let's just agree for once that I accept that the events in Exodus are just a story. I have a couple of issues arising out of that.

1. Is it also your view that there was no expulsion of the Hyksos as stated by Josephus? Certainly if one googles the words, it comes up with lots about the subject including Wiki articles which are generally based on peer-reviewed works. Josephus clearly states that there was an expulsion and that they built Jerusalem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyksos

2. If you dispute both Exodus and Josephus, is that because by accepting any validity to them at all, you have to accept there may be a possibility that the identity of the "Jews" is not as it is now thought and that they were, in fact, Armenians?

You see where I am coming from. Does one make history accord with what one wants the answer to be or does one accept that these things are said and then consider their consequences, regardless of whether they raise questions which might be inconvenient?

There is atheism, and then there is nihilism, where everything ever written is a myth, and I'm not sure I am prepared to accept that all human knowledge about these things is so fundamentally flawed if it isn't written down on paper, that we can't look at any legend or story and try to see if there is something real behind it.

Why do you default to so much black and white bordering fallacious reasoning in your claims. Yeah you don't need any diminutive focus to just think it either has to have nothing tied or all lot tied. Something can still be there, and that something can be far off the rails from what's stated.

You as well in here have statements of arguments in posts that are concluding multiple connections. The part times of connecting Horus to Jesus and Horus to Yahweh/El is met by a range of total different statements you often interchangeable use. Even the Christian idea of them being the same isn't a thing set in the early religious documents which is clearly documented at the times of inner proto Christian-church strife. The thing is even the element that plenty others do try to focus on about just the Jesus connection doesn't rely at all on the Yhwh/EL connection because even if that was in there, that idea would contain filling that 1-2 thousand year gap of the religious idea still somehow being significant yet withdrawn in its documented account. There are differences between the periods of time the Jewish/Hebrew ideas of divinity have gone through, but also they do know many of the types in the certain areas like after the babylonian exit and maccabees and the post time to it. The ranges and changes between the founding and after contain a lot of shifts. Not one connection merely to the Egyptian ideas. Besides, allot of religious thought just is spread and cultivated thought new cultures shifting things. Nothing is unknown about that.

But to rely on all or nothing like discussion leads the ideas to come off as lacking desired connecting elements of evidence between so many ranges.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes ClydeLee's post
26-07-2016, 09:22 AM (This post was last modified: 26-07-2016 09:29 AM by Deltabravo.)
RE: The parting of the Red Sea
CL, I am not sure I am following your train of thought.

My position is fairly simple, that there was an old civilization which centered in the Near East due to reasons of trade, that people moved about on land and by sea going back to Neolithic times http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/...ope-by-sea Whereas they were illiterate, they used methods which we don't use now to record events, remember them, to navigate, tell time, explain life as they knew it to themselves. In terms of a God, if the Judeo Christian notion of a god was a male figure in whose image man was made and that he lived in the heavens, I look up to the night sky and the big man up there is Orion. The myths surrounding Jesus are those of Horus, who is represented by this star sign, the moon and the sun. That is the largest and most significant "heavenly" configuration there is. This religion spread to the south of England where Stone Henge was built to worship the same god. It is everywhere, like god, sees everything from up there with his "ay", the moon. He drives away the darkness, climbs a hill with a cross behind him, has a phallus (belt) which he created things with.... he even has a dog. This was god. The Jews must have been Horus worshippers. Whether the people of Syria, where Jesus is supposed to have lived, is inhabited by Armenians who migrated to Syria and returned, or never left, my point is that this is the cult or religion to which Jesus, in my mind, is preaching and his message is Hellenistic. Beyond that, CL, I really have little interest in the subject. I was trying to get to some kind of truth but the prevailing attitude here is to try to be "sophisticated" by saying there are all sorts of ideas, interpretations, etc etc, as you seem to be saying, without ever addressing the points I have made. No one has dared even discuss it. I feel I might as well be among Christians at Sunday school and feel afraid to question about the resurrection because the others won't like me. I thought this forum was for free thought about religion, not intolerance of different ideas.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: