The problem with american's prison systems
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25-04-2016, 02:56 AM
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RE: The problem with american's prison systems
(25-04-2016 02:21 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:(25-04-2016 02:13 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: I can't find sympathy for those who act solely for immediate pleasure and then find themselfs regretting it only after they are faced to reap what they've sown, which is the story of every addict I've known. My statement still holds true whether I have or not.. and I have. What addict doesn't identify as being depressed or anxious? No shit you're depressed; you're addicted to a substance that is destroying your body, mind, assets, relationships, aspirations and prospects. Whether they turn to substance abuse to cope with mentall illness is irrelevant to the fact that their own agency ultimately decided to risk it. You reap what you sow. Initially turning to using the substance, for whatever reason, is the sowing part; Living as an addict to that substance is the reaping part. Nobody just becomes an addict instantaneously. At some point they made the conscious decision to use, before being addicted yet, knowing full-well what using can lead to. They wagered they were above addiction. They lost that wager. I'm not going to sympathise with that. (Note: of course I acknowledge that there are instances in which an addict literally has no clue that their substance had addictive properties, and that my reasoning wouldn't apply to them.) |
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25-04-2016, 03:54 AM
(This post was last modified: 25-04-2016 05:29 AM by EvolutionKills.)
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RE: The problem with american's prison systems
(25-04-2016 02:56 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote:(25-04-2016 02:21 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote: So you've never know one who was fighting depression, anxiety, or other untreated psychological problems? Lucky you... An agency affected and colored by their depression or other psychological issues. (25-04-2016 02:56 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: You reap what you sow. People with genetics that offset their brain chemistry are not at fault for their genes. (25-04-2016 02:56 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: Initially turning to using the substance, for whatever reason, is the sowing part; So context doesn't matter? Your argument would hold up if we had a entirely free and robust mental health services widely available to the public and such services and the afflictions they treated weren't culturally stigmatized. But that's not the world we live in, now is it? (25-04-2016 02:56 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: Living as an addict to that substance is the reaping part. Nobody just becomes an addict instantaneously. Nobody chooses to be dependent upon a substance either. That's why it's an addiction. (25-04-2016 02:56 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: At some point they made the conscious decision to use, before being addicted yet, knowing full-well what using can lead to. You simply cannot know that. Vicodin or morphine abuse can start out simply as not being careful enough with medications or a desire to relieve otherwise chronic pain. It's possible for people to be exposed to drugs unknowingly. Someone who takes a hit of ecstasy at a rave probably isn't planing to become addicted, do cocaine, or get raped; even though those are all possibilities, even if you swapped out the ecstasy for alcohol. People also have different physiologies, and what might have no affect on one person can lead to a seriously painful physical addiction in another. Addiction can happen with a single dose, intentional or otherwise. (25-04-2016 02:56 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: They wagered they were above addiction. They lost that wager. I'm not going to sympathise with that. So you have no empathy? ![]() (25-04-2016 02:56 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: (Note: of course I acknowledge that there are instances in which an addict literally has no clue that their substance had addictive properties, and that my reasoning wouldn't apply to them.) Oh good, a single caveat. How magnanimous of you. ![]() |
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25-04-2016, 05:27 AM
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RE: The problem with american's prison systems
(24-04-2016 02:59 PM)Matt Finney Wrote: SYZ,It is kind of silly --- I've yet to see somebody go home on Friday, toke up some reefer for a couple hours and then beat the shit of his wife and kids.................. Alcohol on the other hand............................................. ... .... I'm a double atheist. I don't believe in your god or your politician. |
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25-04-2016, 05:36 AM
(This post was last modified: 25-04-2016 05:40 AM by Gilgamesh.)
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RE: The problem with american's prison systems
(25-04-2016 03:54 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:(25-04-2016 02:56 AM)Gilgamesh Wrote: My statement still holds true whether I have or not.. and I have. What addict doesn't identify as being depressed or anxious? No shit you're depressed; you're addicted to a substance that is destroying your body, mind, assets, relationships, aspirations and prospects. Whether they turn to substance abuse to cope with mentall illness is irrelevant to the fact that their own agency ultimately decided to risk it. Seperating two paragraphs into many more single quotes is not conducive to goal-oriented discussion. If you were actually trying to understand what one is thinking, rather than getting hung up on finding 'gotcha' points, you'd be seeing less gotcha points. For example: "An agency affected and colored by their depression or other psychological issues" doesn't sit at odds with that which you directed it at. It doesn't even expand upon my thoughts; I acknowledged mental illnesses influence right there already. You failed to follow the logical struture of that paragraph, which was contending the opposite of mental illnesses influence on agency being relevant at all. "People with genetics that offset their brain chemistry are not at fault for their genes" if you were actually trying to understand what was said, this wouldn't have been here either. Again, it doesn't sit at odds with anything I said. When you include that sentence with what follows, it's very obvious that it's not referring to genetics. Hell, even if my post ended there it wouldn't imply such - unless you think mentally ill people have no agency; that their illness affects their actions directly without any mediating ego. I mean that's retarded but it seems to be where you're going. Aand it is: "So context doesn't matter? Your argument would hold up if we had a entirely free and robust mental health services widely available to the public and such services and the afflictions they treated weren't culturally stigmatized. But that's not the world we live in, now is it?" My argument is that human agency, no matter how shit its context is, is the ultimate deciding factor in any non-forced substance use. Unless something/someone is physically enroaching upon a person, he is the cause for putting substance in himself. That's fact. Context influences disposition, and disposition influences action, and even still it is fact. And it's fact even when the social services are shit. We are too far removed in worldview that its fruitless to have an exchange on certain things. Judging from your rhetoric thus far, I'm sure you won't be convincing me of anything, here; nore will I you. So as a final say on the matter: Too much bleeding heart liberal bullshit/10. Sometimes it's just as simple as people having problems that they themselves are responsible for man. |
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25-04-2016, 06:42 AM
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RE: The problem with american's prison systems
(24-04-2016 07:52 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:(24-04-2016 03:50 PM)BnW Wrote: I'm ok with an approach similar to what Portugal did. You don't like to read past the headline, do you? You're like an evangelical, immune to argument and facts, and this issue is your religion. Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross When ignorance reigns, life is lost |
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25-04-2016, 08:25 AM
(This post was last modified: 25-04-2016 08:33 AM by Worom.)
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RE: The problem with american's prison systems
(24-04-2016 02:54 PM)SYZ Wrote:(24-04-2016 12:25 PM)Mittens Deluxe Wrote: It's not a matter of whether or not I think drugs are safe, I do not advocate the use of drugs.I'm not quite sure of your stance on this. Firstly you say that all illicit drugs should be decriminalised, and that people should be free to use whatever drugs they choose without any sanctions from other people or the legal system. I noticed that I didn't see any sourced posted in the thread to answer your questions so here we go ![]() Drug war was designed to target African American and low-income communities http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nixo...640a6bbda1 This one is about increasing cartel violence, every time a leader is taken out it just makes things worse and doesn't solve the core problem. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/world/...pikes.html 80-90% of people who use drugs do so moderately without becoming addicts http://www.rawstory.com/2014/09/neurosci...-is-wrong/ 1 Trillion dollars spent on drug war and it's an abject failure. http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/06/opinion/br...-on-drugs/ And last but not least some data on the U.S. Opioid epidemic https://www.drugabuse.gov/about-nida/leg...drug-abuse “We can judge our progress by the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers, our willingness to embrace what is true rather than what feels good.” ― Carl Sagan |
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25-04-2016, 08:59 AM
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RE: The problem with american's prison systems
(24-04-2016 08:02 PM)Banjo Wrote:(24-04-2016 11:48 AM)Lord Dark Helmet Wrote: End the drug war? He's a cop. His very career relies on the "war". You may as well lob spitballs at a battleship for all the honest consideration you're going to get from him. |
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