The religious self entitilement
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28-03-2016, 10:22 AM
The religious self entitilement
Imagine this conversation:
- a Muslim: you eat pork, pork is filthy and brings disease and is forbidden.
- Me: Your religion says you should cut the hands of robbers. That's barbaric.
- a Muslim: NO it can't be wrong, this is the word of God ! It's you who is in the wrong!

Can you see the problem here?

I come from an Islamic background, and I can't say that I'm an atheist, I CAN say that I'm not a creationist in any way. However, my problems with all written religious especially have been starting to accumulate and this is the biggest problem I have with them.

There are as many ways to live life as there are people in the world, and they are all different, some drastically. And this does NOT make them wrong. But to religious people following a certain code, any life that is lived with any sort deviation from THEIR own religion is by definition flawed. To religious people, this IS the thing that they rely on to justify their way of life: their way of life is divine. When you think that your of life comes from the creator of the universe, you will immediately become self entitled and you will gove yourself the right to judge anyone who lives differently from you, even in the slightest. ESPECIALLY in the slightest. These people were born believing that this makes them better than anyone else, and any person living with a slight variation is just not as good.

BUT, as you can see, there are SOO many things wrong with this logic, and it starts with the fact that they ALL don't follow the same religion, so they will judge each other. That is considering that they themselves follow their religion EXACTLY as they should be, which they don't, because no one is perfect. To be fair, religious people know that they are not perfect, but even IF THEY ARE their religions ARE ALREADY FLAWED ! And when tell them that, all conversation ends. THIS is what makes arguing with them impossible...
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28-03-2016, 10:44 AM
RE: The religious self entitilement
So? Islam didn't invent superstitions or the idea of divine reward/punishment. You can find a slew of dietary nonsense in the Bible and Jewish OT as well as religious tribalism.

The only difference between the west and east is that we've had a longer time keeping a leash on religious theocracy and barbarity. The west became more civil in spite of Christianity, not because of it.

Yes Sunnis and Shiites cannot get along, and their Quran and Hadieths and different views of Muhammad cause those conflicts. Those claims and the words in the Quran should be pointed out as the divisive things they are. But any holy book does that.

A Tea party Evangelical Baptist voting for Trump or Ted is still reading the same version of bible as a liberal Obama voting Baptist. Scalia and the Conservative Catholic League are still using the same KJV bible to come to different conclusions than say a liberal pro choice and pro gay marriage Catholic uses. And there are also liberal Jews who don't like the actions of Netenyahu.

Jews have their sexists, Jews have their religious nationalists, but so do Christians. All of them have stupid dietary superstitions and gender roll clothing.

ALL religions are flawed. There never has been, or will be such a thing as a perfect religion where the umbrella label has all sub sects getting along. You can only argue at this current point in history one region of the world still has just enough, even if not the majority, but just enough still stuck in an antiquated view of "submit, and I will treat you like a house guest" or "I will destroy you".

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
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28-03-2016, 12:19 PM
RE: The religious self entitilement
When you cannot internally determine if something is harmful or helpful, without looking in a book, then you have no basis on which to determine if your religion helps the people around you or harms them.

Subscribing to the tenants of a religion blindly and without any care for your fellow human beings is a disaster in the making.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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28-03-2016, 12:41 PM
RE: The religious self entitilement
I agree it's a fatal flaw to try and interpret your religious moral code in your own way and then judging others based on that. Not the actual laws or rules but by your personal interpretation. We see this a lot with Christians who want to deny services to gay couples but will gladly eat shrimp all day long.

My biggest problem with religious entitlement is where they will get special treatment and when it's taken away they become victims. For example, we used to have school led prayers in school, usually the teacher would start the day this way and in the early sixties it was found to be unconstitutional so they stopped. Of course many schools continued it but over the years it's been less and less common. Many Christian politicians want to bring it back, of course there is nothing stopping a student from praying at school. It can be done quietly or in their head but no, that's not good enough. They want a school led prayer.

If you tell these people "Ok, we can have a school led Muslim prayer where everyone has to get down on their knees on a rug and point towards Mecca." they will probably faint from outrage. If you insist on anything in respect to any religion or spiritual belief besides Christianity they call "Discrimination!" They are so entitled and feel their religion is so special it should be given special treatment, they do this sort of thing all the time. It's very annoying and in the end it really begs the question, does their God really need to be worshiped this way? Is it not enough to worship him at church and at home? I guess not since we have to hear about their religious liberty being taken away all the time. I would seriously question a God who requires any believer to stomp all over the rights of others as proof of faith.

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28-03-2016, 01:37 PM
RE: The religious self entitilement
(28-03-2016 10:44 AM)Brian37 Wrote:  So? Islam didn't invent superstitions or the idea of divine reward/punishment. You can find a slew of dietary nonsense in the Bible and Jewish OT as well as religious tribalism.

The only difference between the west and east is that we've had a longer time keeping a leash on religious theocracy and barbarity. The west became more civil in spite of Christianity, not because of it.

Yes Sunnis and Shiites cannot get along, and their Quran and Hadieths and different views of Muhammad cause those conflicts. Those claims and the words in the Quran should be pointed out as the divisive things they are. But any holy book does that.

A Tea party Evangelical Baptist voting for Trump or Ted is still reading the same version of bible as a liberal Obama voting Baptist. Scalia and the Conservative Catholic League are still using the same KJV bible to come to different conclusions than say a liberal pro choice and pro gay marriage Catholic uses. And there are also liberal Jews who don't like the actions of Netenyahu.

Jews have their sexists, Jews have their religious nationalists, but so do Christians. All of them have stupid dietary superstitions and gender roll clothing.

ALL religions are flawed. There never has been, or will be such a thing as a perfect religion where the umbrella label has all sub sects getting along. You can only argue at this current point in history one region of the world still has just enough, even if not the majority, but just enough still stuck in an antiquated view of "submit, and I will treat you like a house guest" or "I will destroy you".

I'm sorry, you must have misunderstood me, because I actually generalized this, i said it's the problem I had with all written religions not just Islam of course, I only gave an example in Islam because it's what I know best. But you are still absolutely right.
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28-03-2016, 01:50 PM
RE: The religious self entitilement
(28-03-2016 12:19 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  When you cannot internally determine if something is harmful or helpful, without looking in a book, then you have no basis on which to determine if your religion helps the people around you or harms them.

Subscribing to the tenants of a religion blindly and without any care for your fellow human beings is a disaster in the making.

Yes, but this has to be taught first, in my country of origin and many others kids are taught religion in all schools since the age of 6, and that is before any kind of science classes or any type of class that would awaken a sense of critical thinking or objectivity in these kids. The problem is that 1) not a lot of the bad things about Islam are discussed, and 2) if they are, they are always explained with "context" or "God said it so we can't argue with it". And the result is that I end up with friends who are mature smart people but who never thought twice about if whether the morals that are given by their religion are actually good or humane or anything. You might think that it's bad in some places in the US or Europe, but at least there you have a fighting chance, where I come from you will be fucking crucified for speaking about the "faults in Religion".
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28-03-2016, 02:21 PM
RE: The religious self entitilement
(28-03-2016 12:41 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  I agree it's a fatal flaw to try and interpret your religious moral code in your own way and then judging others based on that. Not the actual laws or rules but by your personal interpretation. We see this a lot with Christians who want to deny services to gay couples but will gladly eat shrimp all day long.

My biggest problem with religious entitlement is where they will get special treatment and when it's taken away they become victims. For example, we used to have school led prayers in school, usually the teacher would start the day this way and in the early sixties it was found to be unconstitutional so they stopped. Of course many schools continued it but over the years it's been less and less common. Many Christian politicians want to bring it back, of course there is nothing stopping a student from praying at school. It can be done quietly or in their head but no, that's not good enough. They want a school led prayer.

If you tell these people "Ok, we can have a school led Muslim prayer where everyone has to get down on their knees on a rug and point towards Mecca." they will probably faint from outrage. If you insist on anything in respect to any religion or spiritual belief besides Christianity they call "Discrimination!" They are so entitled and feel their religion is so special it should be given special treatment, they do this sort of thing all the time. It's very annoying and in the end it really begs the question, does their God really need to be worshiped this way? Is it not enough to worship him at church and at home? I guess not since we have to hear about their religious liberty being taken away all the time. I would seriously question a God who requires any believer to stomp all over the rights of others as proof of faith.

They can't see the difference between what is actually a "right" and what is a "privilege".. they don't recognize that things like school led prayers are privilege, and they confuse it for a right. It's plain and simple. But the political leaders who appeal to these masses will use this misconception, them ignorant of it as well, and blow it to bigger proportions.
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