The resurrection
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23-02-2017, 03:39 PM
RE: The resurrection
(23-02-2017 03:20 PM)Emma Wrote:  Wikipedia has some interesting critiques of the word cisgender:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

Ah, see ... here ....
Cisgender may also be defined as those who have a gender identity or perform a gender role society considers appropriate for one's sex.

... is where I begin ... ? Blink

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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23-02-2017, 03:43 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2017 04:02 PM by Vera.)
RE: The resurrection
(23-02-2017 03:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Someone should tell FreeMantle they're not acting very free.


But if it was like that episode of Black Mirror where the British Prime Minister fucked a pig then yeah, I hear you.

Who the fuck are Freemantle?

Basically, them good ol’ Puritans accused a poor fella of having boinked an oinker… because he was on the ugly side and one of the piglets “looked like him” (!!!). In typical loving Xtian fashion they then proceeded to tell him that if he confessed, he would be shown mercy (and, presumably, they would stop “interrogating” him, enhanced-ly or otherwise). Poor fella “confesses”… and is duly executed, ‘cause, like the good hypocritical bastards they were (and are), the Puritans said that he would, indeed be shown mercy, but not by them, but by god. Miss Piggy got the chop, too (and the Puritan bastards got the chops, I'm assuming). Yet another wonderful, wonderful story of all the peace on earth and good will toward men (and beasts!) Xtianty's been spreading on earth, like the filthy brain eating virus that it is. Dodgy

And then, there are those who are really ace (part of me kinda knows/can see where they’re coming from. Or not coming, as ‘it were Drinking Beverage )



(Yeah, that's where I tried and failed to get into Black Mirror)


It's only words, as they sing, Kimmie, and frankly I've never much cared for labels. I do, however, understand the need for them in certain situations, for helping people better understand other (usually marginalised) groups and what have you. Still, I hope one day we won't need any labels any more. Won't live to see that day but can still hope it'll come...

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-02-2017, 03:46 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2017 03:51 PM by Emma.)
RE: The resurrection
(23-02-2017 03:14 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(23-02-2017 03:00 PM)kim Wrote:  I'd seen cis-gender but wasn't exactly certain what it referred to.

I'm not certain I care for gender-normative ... it seems weirdly confining. Dodgy

Gender nonconforming is my favorite. So what you're saying is that Girly is not allowed to dress up as Sailor Moon anymore? uh huh, yup, got it. Hold on a sec, lemme go change.

Girly can dress up however Girly wants. Thumbsup

You do you, buddy. Smile


Anyway-

I do dislike the term gender-normative, though. It feels too much like saying I'm abnormal- which feels alienating. I know I'm not part of the norm, but- reminding everyone that trans people are not normal and non trans people are the normal people just feels icky. A "normative" vs "non-normative" perspective just feels like saying one group is the standard and the other is the exception. Societies tend to want to ignore exceptions, which is why meaningful progress is so difficult to achieve and hold on to. Right now it's bad enough some people want us to use entirely separate bathrooms, and many would rather we don't exist at all.

The descriptor of one aspect of my being should not focus on the fact that I'm abnormal. I'm "gender-abnormal" and you're "gender-normal". Just think about how limiting that is. And how many people would ultimately fall out of the "normal" basket because of one weird quirk that they have that doesn't fit inside of the current and idealized standard norms for their gender. I feel like this terms is too messy. Whereas cisgender is much more precisely defined.

I don't know. But this topic is one about which I have had to think about... a lot. And so you're getting some of my messy and erratic thoughts on it now. Big Grin
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23-02-2017, 03:47 PM
RE: The resurrection
(23-02-2017 03:43 PM)Vera Wrote:  Basically, them good ol’ Puritans accused a poor fella of having boinked an oinker… because he was on the ugly side and one of the piglets “looked like him” (!!!). In typical loving Xtian fashion they then proceeded to tell him that if he confessed, he would be shown mercy (and, presumably, they would stop “interrogating” him, enhanced-ly or otherwise). Poor fella “confesses”… and is duly executed, ‘cause, like the good hypocritical bastards they were (and are), the Puritans said that he would, indeed be shown mercy, but not by them, but by god. Miss Piggy got the chop, too (and the Puritan bastards got the chops, I'm assuming). Yet another wonderful, wonderful story of all the peace on earth and good will toward men (and beasts!) Xtianty's been spreading on earth, like the filthy brain eating virus that it is.

So basically the same. This plot's likely been around a while. Probably back to at least the ancient pansexual Greeks. Not sure I wanna research it though.

#sigh
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23-02-2017, 03:48 PM
RE: The resurrection
(23-02-2017 03:43 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(23-02-2017 03:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Someone should tell FreeMantle they're not acting very free.


But if it was like that episode of Black Mirror where the British Prime Minister fucked a pig then yeah, I hear you.

Who the fuck are Freemantle?

Basically, them good ol’ Puritans accused a poor fella of having boinked an oinker… because he was on the ugly side and one of the piglets “looked like him” (!!!). In typical loving Xtian fashion they then proceeded to tell him that if he confessed, he would be shown mercy (and, presumably, they would stop “interrogating” him, enhanced-ly or otherwise). Poor fella “confesses”… and is duly executed, ‘cause, like the good hypocritical bastards they were (and are), the Puritans said that he would, indeed be shown mercy, but not by them, but by god. Miss Piggy got the chop, too (and the Puritan bastards got the chops, I'm assuming). Yet another wonderful, wonderful story of all the peace on earth and good will toward men (and beasts!) Xtianty's been spreading on earth, like the filthy brain eating virus that it is. Dodgy

And then, there are those who are really ace (part of me kinda knows/can see where they’re coming from. Or not coming, as ‘it were Drinking Beverage )



(Yeah, that's where I tried and failed to get into Black Mirror)


It's only words, as they sing Kimmie, and frankly I've never much cared for labels. I do, however, understand the need for them in certain situations, for helping people better understand other (usually marginalised) groups and what have you. Still, I hope one day we won't need any labels any more. Won't live to see that day but can still hope it'll come...

Yeah- that was a fucked up episode. God that whole show was a mindfuck through and through. Blink

It was... good... though... I... think...

And yeah- I wish that labels were unnecessary, too. Maybe some day... but that day is not yet here. Labels are too strict and people are too messy. Labels don't leave room for the grey areas that people ultimately need.
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23-02-2017, 03:53 PM
RE: The resurrection
(23-02-2017 03:39 PM)kim Wrote:  
(23-02-2017 03:20 PM)Emma Wrote:  Wikipedia has some interesting critiques of the word cisgender:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

Ah, see ... here ....
Cisgender may also be defined as those who have a gender identity or perform a gender role society considers appropriate for one's sex.

... is where I begin ... ? Blink

Yeah, "society considers appropriate" immediately raises my hackles -- especially American society, which is overly influenced by Christian fundy types. I do all sorts of things that they don't consider appropriate.
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23-02-2017, 03:57 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2017 04:01 PM by Emma.)
RE: The resurrection
(23-02-2017 03:53 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(23-02-2017 03:39 PM)kim Wrote:  Ah, see ... here ....
Cisgender may also be defined as those who have a gender identity or perform a gender role society considers appropriate for one's sex.

... is where I begin ... ? Blink

Yeah, "society considers appropriate" immediately raises my hackles -- especially American society, which is overly influenced by Christian fundy types. I do all sorts of things that they don't consider appropriate.

Tbh, I have never seen anyone use cisgender in that way. I've only known it to be defined as "Cisgender (often abbreviated to simply cis) is a term for people whose gender identity matches the sex that they were assigned at birth."

I really dislike any suggestion that there are appropriate roles to which people of one sex should adhere. Which is also why I dislike the term gender-normative. That second definition listed on wikipedia is kind of astonishing to me, because non-trans people behave outside of gender norms all the damn time and that does not make them trans. They are still cisgender people.
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23-02-2017, 03:58 PM
RE: The resurrection
(23-02-2017 03:53 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(23-02-2017 03:39 PM)kim Wrote:  Ah, see ... here ....
Cisgender may also be defined as those who have a gender identity or perform a gender role society considers appropriate for one's sex.

... is where I begin ... ? Blink

Yeah, "society considers appropriate" immediately raises my hackles -- especially American society, which is overly influenced by Christian fundy types. I do all sorts of things that they don't consider appropriate.

By my read Thai ladyboys would be cisgender by that definition.

#sigh
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23-02-2017, 03:58 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2017 04:03 PM by Vera.)
RE: The resurrection
For the third times in as many days, I think, I'm going to quote the great Fernando Pessoa: "There are no norms. All people are exceptions to a rule that doesn’t exist."

The rest is the good ol' us-and-them mentality coming into play, yet again, and nothing else (I think? I hope? Consider )

Girly, there was an article in AAAS recently about a monkey fucking a deer (and protecting it from other monkeys), so I'm gonna go with "way before Greece".

"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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23-02-2017, 04:01 PM
RE: The resurrection
(23-02-2017 03:53 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(23-02-2017 03:39 PM)kim Wrote:  Ah, see ... here ....
Cisgender may also be defined as those who have a gender identity or perform a gender role society considers appropriate for one's sex.

... is where I begin ... ? Blink

Yeah, "society considers appropriate" immediately raises my hackles -- especially American society, which is overly influenced by Christian fundy types. I do all sorts of things that they don't consider appropriate.

Yep. So cisgender is just as confining as gender-normative.

Granted, not as verbose but ... both still make me want to slaughter all human kind so I don't have to deal with such shit.


Too much? Dodgy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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