The resurrection
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24-02-2017, 03:36 PM
RE: The resurrection
(24-02-2017 03:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I found these googling around for what the Bible says about an afterlife or resurrection.

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." - Psalm 146:4

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." - Ecclesiastes 9:5

WOAH WOAH WOAH, Girly- did you just post something actually related to the thread topic? Laugh out load

Talk about history, we haven't done that in pages.
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24-02-2017, 03:43 PM
RE: The resurrection
(24-02-2017 03:36 PM)Emma Wrote:  
(24-02-2017 03:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I found these googling around for what the Bible says about an afterlife or resurrection.

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." - Psalm 146:4

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." - Ecclesiastes 9:5

WOAH WOAH WOAH, Girly- did you just post something actually related to the thread topic? Laugh out load

Talk about history, we haven't done that in pages.

oops my bad, back on topic Big Grin

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#sigh
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24-02-2017, 05:08 PM
RE: The resurrection
(24-02-2017 03:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I found these googling around for what the Bible says about an afterlife or resurrection.

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." - Psalm 146:4

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." - Ecclesiastes 9:5

When scripture talks about dead sometimes it refers to dead physical body or corpse, sometimes it refers to embodied spirits
Psalm and Ecclesiastes refers to dead physical body or corpse.
When scripture refers to embodied spirits then we can see that dead think, talk, know things.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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24-02-2017, 05:20 PM (This post was last modified: 24-02-2017 08:27 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The resurrection
(24-02-2017 03:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I found these googling around for what the Bible says about an afterlife or resurrection.

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." - Psalm 146:4

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." - Ecclesiastes 9:5

Psalm 39 :
"Turn your gaze away from me, that I may smile again,
before I depart, and am no more"

Psalm 115 :
The dead do not praise the Lord,
nor do any that go down into silence".

Psalm 6 :
"For in death there is no remembrance of you, in Sheol, who can give you praise ?"

The Hebrews did not believe in personal immortality.
That idea arose slowly as the concept of family continuation faded, after the Exile.

Edit : And as the concept of the "individual" (as having importance) arose in the West.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-06-2017, 10:36 AM
RE: The resurrection
(20-02-2017 07:35 PM)f stop Wrote:  "As far as the resurrection, it's the best attested historical fact of antiquity ever recorded!"

Pure B.S. What's the best way to refute it?

Here's how: The Resurrection as Legendary Growth
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14-06-2017, 10:55 AM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2017 11:04 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The resurrection
The interesting thing is, (to me) the notion changed, (and about why it changed).
In early human groups, (clans) ... one's personal identity existed ONLY in that one was a member of a clan / group / family. There was no concept of "individuality" ... which is very foreign to us today, as that's ALL we know about, pretty much. So the notion of "personal immortality" was without meaning. The ONLY thing that was important was the survival of the clan, and if that happened, everything was all good. Immortality meant having sons to marry and carry on the clan. Until the idea of "individuality" arose and gained some importance, "personal immortality" made no sense. In Hebrew society, this happened during and after the Exile. Family groups got disrupted in this period and after the Exile, partly due to the re-making of social order, and partly due to increasing contact with cultures that had already progressed to "individual importance" (the Greek and Zoroastrians), the notion of "individual" immortality began to develop, although it actually took centuries. Even as late as the turn of the millennium, we have Paul saying "Put on immortality" / "When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory." 1 Corinthians 15:24
The things we take for granted about how people think today, slapping that onto ancient cultures, is called "Presentism". It's rampant in religious thinking.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism..._analysis)

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-06-2017, 10:58 AM
RE: The resurrection
(24-02-2017 05:08 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(24-02-2017 03:30 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I found these googling around for what the Bible says about an afterlife or resurrection.

"His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." - Psalm 146:4

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." - Ecclesiastes 9:5

When scripture talks about dead sometimes it refers to dead physical body or corpse, sometimes it refers to embodied spirits
Psalm and Ecclesiastes refers to dead physical body or corpse.
When scripture refers to embodied spirits then we can see that dead think, talk, know things.

No. The Hebrews had no concept of "sprits" ... YOU do, as you were TAUGHT to think that way. "Shades" were not "souls" or "spirits".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-06-2017, 01:33 PM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2017 01:50 PM by GotIssues.)
RE: The resurrection
(14-06-2017 10:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. The Hebrews had no concept of "sprits" ... YOU do, as you were TAUGHT to think that way. "Shades" were not "souls" or "spirits".

1 Samuel 28:8
So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes and went there, he and two men with him. They came to the woman by night. And he said, “Consult a spirit for me, and bring up for me the one whom I name to you.”

Looks like they did have a concept of spirits....
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14-06-2017, 02:32 PM
RE: The resurrection
(14-06-2017 01:33 PM)GotIssues Wrote:  
(14-06-2017 10:58 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. The Hebrews had no concept of "sprits" ... YOU do, as you were TAUGHT to think that way. "Shades" were not "souls" or "spirits".

1 Samuel 28:8
So Saul disguised himself and put on other clothes and went there, he and two men with him. They came to the woman by night. And he said, “Consult a spirit for me, and bring up for me the one whom I name to you.”

Looks like they did have a concept of spirits....

No. Absolutely NOT. This is a translation issue. I know this incident well. Saul goes to the Witch of Endor, and (illegally) asks her to conjur the "shade" of Samuel. Look up the archaic Hebrew. It's NOT translated correctly. Saul can't see what she conjurs, (only witches can see "shades"). He says to her, "What do you see ?". She says "I see a DIVINE BEING coming up etc". It puts ALL kinds of things in a different light.
a. Their concept of what a "divine being is",
b. it does NOT mean "spirit". Hebrew shades were not souls/spirits. Look them up.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-06-2017, 02:46 PM
RE: The resurrection
(14-06-2017 02:32 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No. Absolutely NOT. This is a translation issue. I know this incident well. Saul goes to the Witch of Endor, and (illegally) asks her to conjur the "shade" of Samuel. Look up the archaic Hebrew. It's NOT translated correctly. Saul can't see what she conjurs, (only witches can see "shades"). He says to her, "What do you see ?". She says "I see a DIVINE BEING coming up etc". It puts ALL kinds of things in a different light.
a. Their concept of what a "divine being is",
b. it does NOT mean "spirit". Hebrew shades were not souls/spirits. Look them up.

What is the "shade" of Samuel then? The Hebrew uses this word - אוֹב 'owb
http://lexiconcordance.com/hebrew/0178.html

1) water skin bottle
2) necromancer
1b) necromancer, one who evokes the dead
1c) ghost, spirit of a dead one
1d) practice of necromancy
3) one that has a familiar spirit

When Psalm 16:10 says you will not abandon my "soul" to Sheol then that seems to me a pretty clear indication that they thought Sheol was where souls/spirits went.
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