The resurrection
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22-02-2017, 01:44 PM
RE: The resurrection
(22-02-2017 12:27 PM)kim Wrote:  
(22-02-2017 11:35 AM)Alla Wrote:  ---
I have my own struggles or as Paul said "I have thorn in my body". Paul asked God to remove this thorn from his body but God told him "sorry, but no". I wonder what was Paul's thorn/struggle?

Well... BTW I am speculating from personal research ...

One could say it is apparent in his writings that Paul resented women in general - he gets pretty shitty about it. Such resentments could stem from the understanding that he was a bastard and he blamed his mother for this. Paul's mother was Jewish and his father was most likely a Roman of some status. He possibly harbored a smidgen of self-hatred ... his struggles we're most likely internal, as are most people's. Shy

I believe that Paul is misunderstood by many. But it is not their fault. I will answer as LDS. We believe that books of the Bible are not complete, contain errors and this is why they can be easily misunderstood. The Bible can be very confusing.

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22-02-2017, 02:17 PM (This post was last modified: 22-02-2017 02:29 PM by Deltabravo.)
RE: The resurrection
If you do a mash up of the NT, the Jewish Encyclopedia, Atwill, Ellis and Thomas Christianity you get a different picture.

Jesus and Jesus/Thomas were twin Princes and, at the time of the death of Nero, Jesus led a revolt in which Joseph Bar Mathias was one of his commanders, at Gamala. Vespasian and Titus Flavius were dispatched to quell this revolt because they feared that Jesus was a pretender to the Roman Emperorship. Titus chased Jesus around Judea and caught up to him in Jerusalem. Jesus was a military leader and Thomas was a preacher. When they were surrounded Jesus took Thomas aside and told him that he was going to take his place and had Judas identify Thomas as the leader of the revolt, which is why Judas has to kiss "Jesus" to identify him. When the Romans captured Thomas, he was with a young man, who ran away naked, dropping his toga. This shows that it was Thomas,not Jesus, since Thomas was gay. The Romans capture both Jesus and Thomas and since they have the same first name, the Romans asked the Jews which of the two of them, Jesus Barabbas or Jesus Christos, they wanted crucified and they picked the latter, as he was not the real military leader of the two, and they all had the idea he was more divine and had a better chance of actually rising from the dead.

So, Jesus/Thomas was crucified. In the meantime, Josephus had turned coat and happened upon the crucifixion scene and had Jesus/Thomas taken down and placed in one of his own tombs. He was still alive when taken down. He had exclaimed "Eloi, why have you forsaken me" because he expected his brother to come and rescue him but Jesus himself had been tortured, had his eye put out and was thrown off a cliff, but survived and had then been taken into Roman custody.

Anyway, Josephus (of Aramathea) bar Mathias left Thomas to be looked after by his mother, Mary Magdelaine, and he came to and left town. He took Mary and they made off for the east, ending up in India where she died and he established Thomas Christianity https://www.britannica.com/topic/Thomas-Christians and was buried in a tomb in Srinigar. http://www.mukti4u2.dk/Jesus_Rozabal_Srinagar.htm

...and they were amazed! lol
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22-02-2017, 02:50 PM
RE: The resurrection
That is much better. You need to rewrite the bible ASAP.

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22-02-2017, 03:00 PM
RE: The resurrection
(22-02-2017 11:35 AM)Alla Wrote:  Thank you for your questions. I absolutely love to answer sincere questions.

GirlyMan Wrote:Nothing you have said so far seems inconsistent with reincarnation or repeated resurrection. Do you or the LDS take a position on reincarnation?
LDS do not teach reincarnation. As I understand reincarnation spirit can enter human female physical body in one life then it can enter human male physical body in another life, then animal's body, then plant's body. I think it depends on how you lived current life
We(LDS) believe that spirit obtains physical body in this life and during resurrection. That's it. Male spirit obtains male physical body. Female spirit obtains female physical body.
But for some reason in this FALLEN world some male spirits are not comfortable in female body or opposite. Why it happens is mystery for us. But we are here to learn what it means to struggle. I assume that people who are confused about their gender identity struggle. I can not understand their struggles but I have compassion for them and I love them.
I have my own struggles or as Paul said "I have thorn in my body". Paul asked God to remove this thorn from his body but God told him "sorry, but no". I wonder what was Paul's thorn/struggle?

GirlyMan Wrote:In what sense? I thought angels were gender and genitalia free, no?
We believe that physical body is formed in the image and after likeness of spiritual body. Spiritual body has male parts and female parts. But they are totally useless. This is why physical bodies are very important. As spirit in physical body you can do what you were not able to do in pre-mortal life. When you resurrect and obtain new physical body you will be able to do even more great things.
For example, we have some organs that seem like totally useless. But who knows? May be they will be useful after resurrection.
Angels. Who are angels?
They are:
pre-mortal men or women
mortal men or women
post mortal men or women
resurrected men or women.
They are not some kind of strange immaterial genderless creatures.

These are interesting posts. But to be clear, I am not confused about my gender. Are you?
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22-02-2017, 03:01 PM (This post was last modified: 22-02-2017 03:29 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The resurrection
(22-02-2017 02:17 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  If you do a mash up of the NT, the Jewish Encyclopedia, Atwill, Ellis and Thomas Christianity you get a different picture.

Jesus and Jesus/Thomas were twin Princes and, at the time of the death of Nero, Jesus led a revolt in which Joseph Bar Mathias was one of his commanders, at Gamala. Vespasian and Titus Flavius were dispatched to quell this revolt because they feared that Jesus was a pretender to the Roman Emperorship. Titus chased Jesus around Judea and caught up to him in Jerusalem. Jesus was a military leader and Thomas was a preacher. When they were surrounded Jesus took Thomas aside and told him that he was going to take his place and had Judas identify Thomas as the leader of the revolt, which is why Judas has to kiss "Jesus" to identify him. When the Romans captured Thomas, he was with a young man, who ran away naked, dropping his toga. This shows that it was Thomas,not Jesus, since Thomas was gay. The Romans capture both Jesus and Thomas and since they have the same first name, the Romans asked the Jews which of the two of them, Jesus Barabbas or Jesus Christos, they wanted crucified and they picked the latter, as he was not the real military leader of the two, and they all had the idea he was more divine and had a better chance of actually rising from the dead.

So, Jesus/Thomas was crucified. In the meantime, Josephus had turned coat and happened upon the crucifixion scene and had Jesus/Thomas taken down and placed in one of his own tombs. He was still alive when taken down. He had exclaimed "Eloi, why have you forsaken me" because he expected his brother to come and rescue him but Jesus himself had been tortured, had his eye put out and was thrown off a cliff, but survived and had then been taken into Roman custody.

Anyway, Josephus (of Aramathea) bar Mathias left Thomas to be looked after by his mother, Mary Magdelaine, and he came to and left town. He took Mary and they made off for the east, ending up in India where she died and he established Thomas Christianity https://www.britannica.com/topic/Thomas-Christians and was buried in a tomb in Srinigar. http://www.mukti4u2.dk/Jesus_Rozabal_Srinagar.htm

...and they were amazed! lol

Nice story. You forgot the dragons and vampires.
Too bad the Jews who wrote pretty much every detail of what was going on during the time forgot to mention your fictitious bs.
Jews at the time did not "take off" to anywhere, least of all India. Facepalm

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22-02-2017, 03:42 PM
RE: The resurrection
(22-02-2017 10:47 AM)Alla Wrote:  
mordant Wrote:with Paul's epistles, where it is questionable whether Jesus is even a physical being. He is presented as a celestial being
Did Paul teach that celestial being can not be physical being?
Not to my recollection, he was vague enough that he kept his options open. But the point is that it was an evolving teaching that did not begin with a literal flesh and blood god-man walking the earth. That would have been untenable in the early days when there were still some living people who would have been alive at the time of the alleged events. 50-plus years later when the gospels began to be written, given the lack of well-traveled, literate, educated and superstition-free people, and the fact that virtually all eyewitnesses were dead, you could weave more elaborate and specific stories and make more florid claims.
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22-02-2017, 03:48 PM
RE: The resurrection
(22-02-2017 03:01 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(22-02-2017 02:17 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  If you do a mash up of the NT, the Jewish Encyclopedia, Atwill, Ellis and Thomas Christianity you get a different picture.

Jesus and Jesus/Thomas were twin Princes and, at the time of the death of Nero, Jesus led a revolt in which Joseph Bar Mathias was one of his commanders, at Gamala. Vespasian and Titus Flavius were dispatched to quell this revolt because they feared that Jesus was a pretender to the Roman Emperorship. Titus chased Jesus around Judea and caught up to him in Jerusalem. Jesus was a military leader and Thomas was a preacher. When they were surrounded Jesus took Thomas aside and told him that he was going to take his place and had Judas identify Thomas as the leader of the revolt, which is why Judas has to kiss "Jesus" to identify him. When the Romans captured Thomas, he was with a young man, who ran away naked, dropping his toga. This shows that it was Thomas,not Jesus, since Thomas was gay. The Romans capture both Jesus and Thomas and since they have the same first name, the Romans asked the Jews which of the two of them, Jesus Barabbas or Jesus Christos, they wanted crucified and they picked the latter, as he was not the real military leader of the two, and they all had the idea he was more divine and had a better chance of actually rising from the dead.

So, Jesus/Thomas was crucified. In the meantime, Josephus had turned coat and happened upon the crucifixion scene and had Jesus/Thomas taken down and placed in one of his own tombs. He was still alive when taken down. He had exclaimed "Eloi, why have you forsaken me" because he expected his brother to come and rescue him but Jesus himself had been tortured, had his eye put out and was thrown off a cliff, but survived and had then been taken into Roman custody.

Anyway, Josephus (of Aramathea) bar Mathias left Thomas to be looked after by his mother, Mary Magdelaine, and he came to and left town. He took Mary and they made off for the east, ending up in India where she died and he established Thomas Christianity https://www.britannica.com/topic/Thomas-Christians and was buried in a tomb in Srinigar. http://www.mukti4u2.dk/Jesus_Rozabal_Srinagar.htm

...and they were amazed! lol

Nice story. You forgot the dragons and vampires.
Too bad the Jews who wrote pretty much every detail of what was going on during the time forgot to mention your fictitious bs.
Jews at the time did not "take off" to anywhere, least of all India. Facepalm

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Yes, but an interesting perspective nonetheless, even if it is ...well,.... Crackers. Big Grin
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22-02-2017, 04:19 PM
RE: The resurrection
Emma Wrote:But to be clear, I am not confused about my gender. Are you?
No, I am not. If I was I would be able to understand their struggles. I wish I could.

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22-02-2017, 04:45 PM
RE: The resurrection
(22-02-2017 04:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  
Emma Wrote:But to be clear, I am not confused about my gender. Are you?
No, I am not. If I was I would be able to understand their struggles. I wish I could.

Well, I am transgender, though I am not confused. While it's not possible for me to convey exactly what it is to be trans, maybe this will help some (despite the obvious flaws in the example):

Let's say you are a woman. You are YOU. You have always been all your life. That's been your life as you know. Tomorrow morning, though, you wake up like with no knowledge of your past except that you've always been a woman, but your body has all men's features- including the bits that might horrify you- and missing the features that you're used to. Worse yet, everywhere you go, people are calling you "sir" and "man" and "dude", and the make fun of you any time you say or do something considered feminine and not masculine.

This goes on for years with no apparent way to address it, but the weight of all these things is building on you. You don't know the answer, the way to fix it, you just know it's wrong.

One day, it hits you. You're a girl, you know you're a girl, and there's a way to try to change your outside to match your inside. It's not a pretty way. It's messy, and lengthy, and dangerous. It will take YEARS to accomplish. And people will know for a while that you're doing it- because it will be obvious that you look weird. People you've grown to know and love might suddenly reject you. It's risky. Some people might react violently- but you know that if you don't, your depression will continue to grow and grow, and build and build until... Maybe you've already tried to end yourself just to make it stop, but NOW you have answers- you know that there might be a way and you're taking steps to fix it. Now there's hope, so you do it. You take those first steps, despite the risk. Despite the embarrassment and the shame that you feel. The shame that is put on you by a society that not only doesn't understand, but doesn't want to. Probably never can, but they don't even try. But you have to do it.

You aren't "confused". You know the answer, but to everyone else looking at you, you look like a confused freak. It's easy for them to say you're confused, but you have known for years who you are.

Anyway, I hope this helps. It's not meant to be combative. Best wishes! Smile
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22-02-2017, 04:48 PM
RE: The resurrection
(22-02-2017 04:45 PM)Emma Wrote:  
(22-02-2017 04:19 PM)Alla Wrote:  No, I am not. If I was I would be able to understand their struggles. I wish I could.

Well, I am transgender, though I am not confused. While it's not possible for me to convey exactly what it is to be trans, maybe this will help some (despite the obvious flaws in the example):

Let's say you are a woman. You are YOU. You have always been all your life. That's been your life as you know. Tomorrow morning, though, you wake up like with no knowledge of your past except that you've always been a woman, but your body has all men's features- including the bits that might horrify you- and missing the features that you're used to. Worse yet, everywhere you go, people are calling you "sir" and "man" and "dude", and the make fun of you any time you say or do something considered feminine and not masculine.

This goes on for years with no apparent way to address it, but the weight of all these things is building on you. You don't know the answer, the way to fix it, you just know it's wrong.

One day, it hits you. You're a girl, you know you're a girl, and there's a way to try to change your outside to match your inside. It's not a pretty way. It's messy, and lengthy, and dangerous. It will take YEARS to accomplish. And people will know for a while that you're doing it- because it will be obvious that you look weird. People you've grown to know and love might suddenly reject you. It's risky. Some people might react violently- but you know that if you don't, your depression will continue to grow and grow, and build and build until... Maybe you've already tried to end yourself just to make it stop, but NOW you have answers- you know that there might be a way and you're taking steps to fix it. Now there's hope, so you do it. You take those first steps, despite the risk. Despite the embarrassment and the shame that you feel. The shame that is put on you by a society that not only doesn't understand, but doesn't want to. Probably never can, but they don't even try. But you have to do it.

You aren't "confused". You know the answer, but to everyone else looking at you, you look like a confused freak. It's easy for them to say you're confused, but you have known for years who you are.

Anyway, I hope this helps. It's not meant to be combative. Best wishes! Smile
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