The right to NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance
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07-06-2013, 04:32 AM
RE: The right to NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance
Egor wtf is wrong with you ? Dodgy

This whole Jekyll and Hyde thing is getting seriously old. Please desist from derailing yet another thread into some kind of ego fest for yourself.
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07-06-2013, 04:37 AM
RE: The right to NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance
Quote:The country you live in should require nothing of you. If it is a country worthy of an allegiance then it will have it

This. Wise words DL.


As for forcing kids to say the pledge... well I've said it before and I'll say it again...
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As for Egor, stop being such a douche. America sucks, get over it.

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07-06-2013, 02:08 PM
RE: The right to NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance
I have no problems really with not saying "under God", but to me it still feels...wrong. Like, say you have to say a sentence outloud, it's like saying a hate sentence, "Gays suck", if you change it to "Oranges suck" it still doesn't change the original and intended meaning for me. I may just being too picky, but I don't want to say it when it feels wrong entirely.

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07-06-2013, 02:33 PM
RE: The right to NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance
I'm not a fan of the pledge myself, but I don't get my panties in a wad if someone does or does not want to say it. As long as they don't tell me I have to or tell other people they have to.

There is something inherently disturbing about reciting a pledge to a flag and/or a pledge of allegiance to a government. No one actually pledges their full allegiance to the government anyways, because no one has their political views perfectly represented in government. This is why we have elections. At most, I pledge my allegiance to a set of ideals, like free speech, but never to a government or any organization. I pledge to be critical. I pledge to ask questions. And I pledge to wield my vote as a tool for implementing my political views.

I see people posting the bs stuff on FB all the time about bringing back the pledge and I can't help but chuckle when I see bumper stickers that proclaim things like "I love America and if you don't, get the hell out!" Such insecurity. And an admission of emotional reasoning instead of rational reasoning.

I was going to post a conversation I had with a cousin on facebook, but he appears to have defriended me. I brought up the original pledge, and its incarnations up until 1954 that all excluded "under God" in it. The response? Basically to say that this was all irrelevant and that while he is not forcing his religion on anyone, he wants the one with god recited. His wife also proclaims that none of this would be an issue if we had just kept them (I have no idea who they are) from crossing the border.

The stupid makes my fucking head want to explode.

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07-06-2013, 02:48 PM
RE: The right to NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance
Egor, you have gone "beyond the pale". Are you actually saying its treason to criticize your country?? The very same men who framed the words - we hold these things to be self- evident .... that all men are created equal- were also slave owners. If no-one criticized their system we would still have slavery. I believe it is treasonous not to criticize when our government does wrong. It is the strength of democracy to be free to speak truth and work to better our countries. Slavery is legally gone but discrimination is alive and well. Isn't it time to accept all people no matter their gender, colour, sexual orientation or religion - including those with no religion?
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07-06-2013, 03:00 PM
RE: The right to NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance
Egor's gone...

He no longer exists.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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07-06-2013, 03:09 PM
RE: The right to NOT say the Pledge of Allegiance
I suppose you're right. I'm just curious what he actually believes and what motivates him. Sometimes I think he invents it all for a reaction.
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