The secret to defeating god.
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13-01-2015, 05:29 PM
RE: The secret to defeating god.
Prompted by the idea that hitting god with a stinger missile can be colloquially referred to as "freaking sweet." I have looked it up and found a series called The Salvation War.

The elevator pitch:
Quote:God (Yahweh) calls the end times, judges all of humanity to be unworthy of his grace and leaves everybody to burn after opening the gates of hell.

*Shotgun ratcheting noise*

"Well fuck you too."

I will begin reading it shortly.

(13-01-2015 03:26 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 01:17 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  This is true. A lot of cultures figured out sanitary stuff on their own and made rules about it, too.

I'm super glad other cultures figured out that pork could be eaten if properly cooked, as opposed to just saying "don't eat this ever, guys". Yay bacon! Boo Leviticus!

You might recall a post of mine where I said something like 2/3 of the 613 laws have direct and indirect health benefits. I find the scriptures extraordinary in their depth and breadth of value to us, today.

No way he could have just not put into place the conditions that would give rise to the diseases in the first place? Failing that: How about you include instructions on how cure every disease and make every disease curable?

How about making it so that every cure you include actually works?

How about including instructions on how to make soap or to wash your hands before eating or how to best irrigate soil or how to purify water?

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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13-01-2015, 06:41 PM
RE: The secret to defeating god.
(11-01-2015 09:56 PM)AlephBet Wrote:  
(11-01-2015 09:50 PM)Shadow Fox Wrote:  Someday I want to compile a full comprehensive list of stuff like this, contradictions, evil quotes and illogical stuff in the bible and make a book out of it all lol. I just need to find it all first.

Look within. It's all there.

I did, and I found that I AM. I said I AM that I AM, I AM I AM I AM.





I am the rock of the ages
You cannot move I at all
I am the son of lightning
You cannot move I at all
Son of Jacob
Cannot move me at all
I am the son of Moses
You can't move I at all
I am the son of David
You cannot move I at all

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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13-01-2015, 09:24 PM
RE: The secret to defeating god.
(13-01-2015 03:26 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You might recall a post of mine where I said something like 2/3 of the 613 laws have direct and indirect health benefits. I find the scriptures extraordinary in their depth and breadth of value to us, today.

I don't. They're nothing other than jotted down bronze-age understandings of problems in the world with bronze-age workarounds.

I'd be impressed if they actually illustrated some greater level of intelligence, understanding, and foresight for explaining why the things are a problem and how to fix it, rather than offering simple cause-and-effect observations. My cats can do that.

Mediocre: Explaining not to eat pork because it is "unclean" because people seem to get sick when eating it.

Extraordinary: Explaining about food-borne parasites and the proper cooking techniques required to kill them well before that society has microscopes.

The Bible took the mediocre route.
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14-01-2015, 04:27 AM
RE: The secret to defeating god.
Tis true, and it is what gave the name to this pretty nice counter-apologetics wiki

http://wiki.ironchariots.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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14-01-2015, 04:45 AM
RE: The secret to defeating god.
(11-01-2015 10:27 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Or does He have some kind of iron allergy.

It's an irony allergy.

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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14-01-2015, 10:47 AM
RE: The secret to defeating god.
(13-01-2015 03:45 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 03:25 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Perhaps we are overcomplicating here? This is the pre-incarnate Jesus as no one has "seen the Father, ever" but "God walked in the Garden with Adam and Eve". Jesus is in a fellowship with the first people that is shattered by their actions.
Perhaps we ought to focus on the actual words in the bible.
Firstly, it's not Jesus, It's the god that's in the garden.
Secondly the "fellowship" isn't really a fellowship, its a dictatorship and the dictator is easily offended, over controlling and probably insecure.
The god proves that it is not omnipresent, proves that it is bounded by time (cannot see into the future), proved that it does not have total knowledge.
The god sets up a trap (entrapment), throws a hissy fit and promisses to punish all women for all time for the "crimes" committed by Eve.
Gets upset and punishes Adam when it was the god who insisted that Adam take a partner "Eve" who was then to convince Adam to eat the apple.

It would be like a parent introducing their impressionable child to the naughty child living next door. Putting a plate of chocolate chip cookies on the table in a room with the kids, telling them something ridiculous like "you are not to eat these cookies, if you do you will die". Then leaves the room so that the kids know the parent isn't watching. Comes back and acts all surprised and angry that the cookies have been eaten, then dishes out punishment to the two kids, their kids, their kid's kids, their kid's kid's kids etc.

If these myth-stories do it for you then great, happy for you. But they aren't for me, there is only so much nonsense I can take.

But there is (as always) an absolute wealth of information in such a brief Bible story(s). The Adam and Eve story is bedrock for so many peoples and cultures and says much about human nature and it's sometimes self-defeating nature. Further, the story agrees with the "traps" you are mentioning, stating that God placed both trees in the MIDDLE of the Garden. No fencing nearby!

Yes, the Genesis account says G_d and not Jesus by name, which name was revealed eons later in Isaiah 9, etc. But a reconciliation of Jesus's statements that no one has seen the Father and that He had fellowship with Abraham, etc. and that He is Creator and Originator (John 1) places Jesus as a literal anthropomorphic figure in the Garden.

Can you escape the Garden? Can I? Can EVERY person at TTA, theist or atheist, honestly admit that they would have eaten of the tree and are as responsible for the tree disobedience as Adam and Eve? Would you admit that there are things you shouldn't do that you did because of desire? Would you and I both admit that we regret doing certain things and that willpower was insufficient?

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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14-01-2015, 10:52 AM
RE: The secret to defeating god.
(13-01-2015 09:24 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 03:26 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  You might recall a post of mine where I said something like 2/3 of the 613 laws have direct and indirect health benefits. I find the scriptures extraordinary in their depth and breadth of value to us, today.

I don't. They're nothing other than jotted down bronze-age understandings of problems in the world with bronze-age workarounds.

I'd be impressed if they actually illustrated some greater level of intelligence, understanding, and foresight for explaining why the things are a problem and how to fix it, rather than offering simple cause-and-effect observations. My cats can do that.

Mediocre: Explaining not to eat pork because it is "unclean" because people seem to get sick when eating it.

Extraordinary: Explaining about food-borne parasites and the proper cooking techniques required to kill them well before that society has microscopes.

The Bible took the mediocre route.

Bizarre: Explaining about cooking temperatures and parasites to millennia of persons who have neither microscopes nor thermometers.

Better: Using language relevant to Bronze Age/Ancient Near East folk.

Best: Not being presentist in your reading--not saying "I know how to communicate better to peoples of the ANE than ANE writers and I know how to communicate better than God in providing knowledge to my followers while WITHHOLDING the same knowledge from my detractors," in other words, if atheists say the Law is mundane and then Christians build healthier, happier lives on the Law, God's purposes are satisfied!

Ironic but there it is. As soon as atheists say, "Wow, that Bible has a lot of great stuff in it except for the fractional percentage of god-stuff I dislike" we will have gone through a looking glass...

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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14-01-2015, 11:19 AM
RE: The secret to defeating god.
(13-01-2015 03:25 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(13-01-2015 12:50 PM)Stevil Wrote:  But wasn't he supposed to have left Adam and Eve alone in the garden just after showing them the tree with the delicious looking forbidden fruit.

And then, just after the talking snake and the eating of the apple incident, Low and behold he comes back.

Where are you fella's?
Wotcha bin upto?
Did ya miss me?

Oh, yous fellas bin eat'n da fruit that I said not ta eat.
Owwwwwwwie, you fellas is a bit naughty eh?

Ah well, what fun shall we get up to today?

If the fucker is everywhere, then he can't have left the garden, perhaps he was in disguise. Maybe something slithery to suit his character.

Perhaps we are overcomplicating here? This is the pre-incarnate Jesus as no one has "seen the Father, ever" but "God walked in the Garden with Adam and Eve". Jesus is in a fellowship with the first people that is shattered by their actions.

I think the writers of the New Testament and founders of Christianity overcomplicated it when they took the Jewish mythology of the Old Testament and did a miserable job trying to weave their bullshit with the Old Testament bullshit.

That's why you have to step back every time somebody asks a hard question, think about the plausible replies, and pick the one you like the best. No different when you tell two different people lies regarding similar events. It's hard to keep the story straight.

It's overcomplicated because it's wrong.
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14-01-2015, 11:34 AM
RE: The secret to defeating god.
(14-01-2015 10:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Bizarre: Explaining about cooking temperatures and parasites to millennia of persons who have neither microscopes nor thermometers.

Better: Using language relevant to Bronze Age/Ancient Near East folk.

Best: Not being presentist in your reading

It is hardly "presentist" to think that the book could have said "don't eat pork unless it is thoroughly cooked". A god who created those parasites would have known what the problem was and how to deal with it. He could have "inspired" an explanation that would have been understandable at the time; hell, he could have just flat out told them that there is life there that is too small to see. A blanket prohibition on pork, even if it was founded on noting that people sometimes got sick from it, just demonstrates that the author was completely ignorant of the cause. It shows that the bible is just the product of man's limited understanding at the time.

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14-01-2015, 11:42 AM
RE: The secret to defeating god.
(14-01-2015 11:34 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(14-01-2015 10:52 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  Bizarre: Explaining about cooking temperatures and parasites to millennia of persons who have neither microscopes nor thermometers.

Better: Using language relevant to Bronze Age/Ancient Near East folk.

Best: Not being presentist in your reading

It is hardly "presentist" to think that the book could have said "don't eat pork unless it is thoroughly cooked". A god who created those parasites would have known what the problem was and how to deal with it. He could have "inspired" an explanation that would have been understandable at the time; hell, he could have just flat out told them that there is life there that is too small to see. A blanket prohibition on pork, even if it was founded on noting that people sometimes got sick from it, just demonstrates that the author was completely ignorant of the cause. It shows that the bible is just the product of man's limited understanding at the time.

Does the Bible say anything about raw fish, or chicken? Or just about any meat.

It would make sense that man could look at the habits of a pig and gather that it is "unclean".
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