The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
09-04-2015, 07:30 AM
The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
There is a pro-god/pro-theism argument that some poor souls use that normally resembles the following:

So you don't believe in anything? Don't you think it's selfish to not believe in something greater than yourself? Can't you see the big picture

So... I have two questions:

- What's the best way to counter this? I mean, does it even matter if it's selfish? Is this even an argument?

- Can I punch people who say this, please?

What this argument means to theists:

- This argument represents a sort of enlightened smart position of someone who is able to see god's work and consequentially anyone who doesn't agree with the premises is being ignorant and weak minded - It is a great way to attempt tot link theism with intellectual productivity.

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-04-2015, 07:34 AM
RE: The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
How is it selfish not to believe in something? Selfishness is something that applies to actions; not beliefs. But, hey, if you wanna play that game, how arrogant do you have to be to believe that the supreme being in charge of all of reality is simply a prayer away, and that he (always a he...) is willing to change his divine plan if you just ask him to.

Yes, you can punch people who say that, but you'd better be prepared to deal with the consequences.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-04-2015, 07:44 AM
RE: The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
First counter I can think of:
Beliefs can't be selfish, as you can't choose them. The actions they inspire can be selfish
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-04-2015, 07:45 AM
RE: The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
@One I was actually being sarcastic to demonstrate my unpleasantness with such argument

One thing I can't think of is why isn't theism selfish? Believing the universe is designed with you in mind (like Hitchens said) sounds a lot more selfish and less humble than believing we are mere creatures and products of evolution like any other species

"A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything" - Friedrich Nietzsche
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-04-2015, 07:58 AM
RE: The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
Sounds more like narcissism to me: 'I believe god created the entire universe and 7 billion people, and he knows my name and cares about me'
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bad Wolf's post
09-04-2015, 08:51 AM
RE: The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
It's really easy: "That's funny, I didn't realize we had to formulate our beliefs based around what makes us appear most selfless. I thought we had to make sure our beliefs are true. "

Reality doesn't care one whit about selflessness, and so to avoid slipping into fantasy, neither should we, when it comes to making our beliefs fit to reality. This selfishness thing isn't even an argument, it's an attempt to shame you into submission, but you just need to remember the hidden premises of what's being said:

"You do realize that this delusion that I have will make you look way better, don't you?"
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Esquilax's post
09-04-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
I've not really heard it nor does it make much sense.

The acceptance that each human individual is no special being, not created and bestowed for some glory is a far less selfish perspective. That's really how the Judeo religious view has it. Especially the chosen people group.

But idk, seeing how one human is made of elements that get forged in the stars and are no higher or lower, which is a arbitrary distinction is far from really selfish. It's seeing exactly how not massively unique and special humans are.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-04-2015, 09:33 AM
RE: The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
(09-04-2015 07:30 AM)Blackout Wrote:  ...
- Can I punch people who say this, please?
...

Yes.

According to His Popiness recently, you can punch whoever disagrees with you?

Wink

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes DLJ's post
09-04-2015, 09:40 AM
RE: The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
It seems awfully selfish to think some all powerful being created everything just so we can exist.
You have a point though about 'what does it matter?'. That would likely have been my reply.

(30-03-2015 08:47 PM)Colourcraze Wrote:  IT'S THE HOLY GHOST oooOOOOOOOOOOooooooo
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
09-04-2015, 10:14 AM
RE: The selfishness argument - Can it get worse?
Quote:So you don't believe in anything?

Disbelief in his god doesn't imply disbelief in everything. This is a strawman.

Quote:Don't you think it's selfish to not believe in something greater than yourself?


Disbelief in his god doesn't imply disbelief in anything greater than oneself. I don't believe in any gods, yet I know for a fact that the Universe has a grandeur and elegance that is not only far beyond any human., but may well be beyond proper human comprehension.

So, again, straw man.

Quote:Can't you see the big picture

Assuming that disagreement stems from incomprehension is not only self-serving, it is circular.


(09-04-2015 07:30 AM)Blackout Wrote:  What this argument means to theists:

- This argument represents a sort of enlightened smart position of someone who is able to see god's work and consequentially anyone who doesn't agree with the premises is being ignorant and weak minded - It is a great way to attempt tot link theism with intellectual productivity.

Indeed, and that means that the perfect riposte would point out exactly how vapid and filled with assumptions it is, in order to puncture the impression of comprehension the person is trying to convey ... that is, if you enjoy arguing with folks that stupid. Assholes like Drich or Godschild only merit scorn or contempt when they try to shovel this horseshit, and that is all they get from me.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thumpalumpacus's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: