The shit just hit the fan
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14-11-2014, 11:14 AM
RE: The shit just hit the fan
(14-11-2014 08:46 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  Or you might try the Slip Slide Tap Dance Tango and turn the tables on her. Next time, try something like, "Gee, Mom, I learned everything about god from you. Do you doubt that you did a good job teaching me the ways of the church? You really need to trust yourself more that you raised me to be a good person. Now, how 'bout them Cowboys?"

No admission on your part, no way to answer on her part.

Big Grin

I like your thinking!!!
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14-11-2014, 11:17 AM
RE: The shit just hit the fan
(14-11-2014 10:05 AM)KUSA Wrote:  Just fake it and talk in tongues over her.

Bwahahhaha!!!
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14-11-2014, 11:37 AM
RE: The shit just hit the fan
(14-11-2014 09:49 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:but would your mother rather you lie to her or to be honest?

Theists are happiest with lies. They have sold themselves a bill a goods and are quite content with it.

Dammit, you got me there. Great point.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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14-11-2014, 11:40 AM
RE: The shit just hit the fan
I am just going to throw my two cents in.

1. How ill is she? I realize we never know when our time is up, but is she still up and about, eating meals, still have her wits about her and just living with her diagnosis or is in an active - death will be in here in a few months- stage?
I have known people who actively battled cancer for 10 years. So yes, they are dying, but 10 years, thats a long time, ya know.

2. if its an unknown time, then I would address it. But if she is actively dying (organs not functioning, not eating enough, sleeping most of the day kind of stuff- then no I wouldnt discuss with her. Her remaining time and health dont give opportunity for understanding. Sometimes you need time to sort things out so you can accept them.

When she says that she doesnt want to die without knowing if you are saved, its two things...she loves her child and fears for their eternal life, but its also emotional blackmail. its guilt tripping at its finest.

You could ask her if Jesus would buy it if you said "yes I believe" just to make a dying mother happy? And I woukd ask her if she wants to hear the truth or the answer that will make her happy? because she cant have both.

I am betting someone outed you since so many people know or atleast said something that made her doubt where you stand.


there comes a point in our lives when we have to make a stand against our parents and declare our own autonomy, and explain that just because we are different doesnt mean that there isnt love. Sometimes its easy, sometimes it isnt.

in your case, for me, it would depend on the amount of time you think is available. because these issues take time to work thru.

also, consider how you will feel 20 years from now, will it bother you more to know that you allowed your mom to think you were a believer rather than you as you really are or would it make you happier to know that you said what you needed to say to comfort a dying person? How will you frame it in your mind.

best of luck to you, please post an update once you have figured it all out.

Hug


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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14-11-2014, 12:31 PM
RE: The shit just hit the fan
(14-11-2014 09:49 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:but would your mother rather you lie to her or to be honest?

Theists are happiest with lies. They have sold themselves a bill a goods and are quite content with it.

This is very true! My mom loves to stay in her little bubble... that's her happy place.

Although I haven't talked with her yet...I know no matter the amount of evidence I present to her, she will keep her blinders on. She will proclaim that Jesus is her lord and savior and any evidence or attempt to dispute that is just a evil ploy of satan.
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14-11-2014, 01:05 PM
RE: The shit just hit the fan
(14-11-2014 12:31 PM)TN Skeptic Wrote:  I know no matter the amount of evidence I present to her, she will keep her blinders on. She will proclaim that Jesus is her lord and savior and any evidence or attempt to dispute that is just a evil ploy of satan.

Careful. You're not trying to convince her of anything religion-wise (least of all that you are right), just that you are sincere and honest in your disbelief and that it should not change the love that you guys share.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-11-2014, 01:11 PM
RE: The shit just hit the fan
(14-11-2014 11:40 AM)Bows and Arrows Wrote:  I am just going to throw my two cents in.

1. How ill is she? I realize we never know when our time is up, but is she still up and about, eating meals, still have her wits about her and just living with her diagnosis or is in an active - death will be in here in a few months- stage?
I have known people who actively battled cancer for 10 years. So yes, they are dying, but 10 years, thats a long time, ya know.

2. if its an unknown time, then I would address it. But if she is actively dying (organs not functioning, not eating enough, sleeping most of the day kind of stuff- then no I wouldnt discuss with her. Her remaining time and health dont give opportunity for understanding. Sometimes you need time to sort things out so you can accept them.

When she says that she doesnt want to die without knowing if you are saved, its two things...she loves her child and fears for their eternal life, but its also emotional blackmail. its guilt tripping at its finest.

You could ask her if Jesus would buy it if you said "yes I believe" just to make a dying mother happy? And I woukd ask her if she wants to hear the truth or the answer that will make her happy? because she cant have both.

I am betting someone outed you since so many people know or atleast said something that made her doubt where you stand.


there comes a point in our lives when we have to make a stand against our parents and declare our own autonomy, and explain that just because we are different doesnt mean that there isnt love. Sometimes its easy, sometimes it isnt.

in your case, for me, it would depend on the amount of time you think is available. because these issues take time to work thru.

also, consider how you will feel 20 years from now, will it bother you more to know that you allowed your mom to think you were a believer rather than you as you really are or would it make you happier to know that you said what you needed to say to comfort a dying person? How will you frame it in your mind.

best of luck to you, please post an update once you have figured it all out.

Hug

She has lung condition that the doctors can't treat. She has tried several treatments and nothing works. The only option they have given her is to do a double lung transplant at Duke Medical Center. My mom refused the transplant and maintains the idea that her god is going to heal her lungs. Extremely frustrating for myself. She still gets up and walks in her home but can't do the stairs. My father does the grocery shopping because she gets winded even while on her oxygen. Her organs haven't began to shut down or anything of that nature. It will be a long journey while her lung capacity continues to dwindle. Recently she said her pulmonologist had indicated she might have 5 years. Although something simple as the flu or cold could be detrimental to her compromised immune system. Sorry if that TMI on her condition.

Quote:When she says that she doesnt want to die without knowing if you are saved, its two things...she loves her child and fears for their eternal life, but its also emotional blackmail. its guilt tripping at its finest.

I agree and I think it is both. I do think she loves her children and she honestly fears eternal hell for my soul. That would be any parents worst nightmare if such a place existed. At the same time she is using it to guilt trip and manipulate the situation to get the outcome she desires. An outcome that would be completely untrue whether she knew it or not.

I have thought a great deal on having a chat with her and explaining that I can't force myself to believe in something I honestly don't think is true. Just as one can't force themselves to believe in unicorns. But then I am also bothered by the idea that my mom will never understand and just like she said, she will die and be tormented by the idea of her daughter spending all eternity in the fiery pits of hell.

I have been putting this off for a while now and I knew at some point I was going to have to face it and make a decision on how to proceed. We live within a 10 minutes drive of each other and my kids love going to their house and playing on the tractors, in the garden and what not. Avoidance isn't an option. This very indecisive girl is going to have to make a huge decision soon!

Thanks for your post it was very helpful!
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14-11-2014, 01:25 PM
RE: The shit just hit the fan
(14-11-2014 01:11 PM)TN Skeptic Wrote:  ... like she said, she will die and be tormented by the idea of her daughter spending all eternity in the fiery pits of hell.

that is one choice, she doesnt have to do that. She chooses that.

She could choose to have faith in her God that he will show you the way, or she could choose to accept that you are an adult and are capable enough to think through it all and come to a decision that is best for you.

if you tell, expect the religious lessons on your kids to get ramped up.


"Life is a daring adventure or it is nothing"--Helen Keller
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14-11-2014, 01:59 PM
Re: The shit just hit the fan
I live fairly close to Duke. If Duke didn't help, I'm very sorry to hear about her health.
Sad
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04-12-2014, 07:54 AM
RE: The shit just hit the fan
I'm new to this forum, but have been dealing w/o religion for 40 years or more. But in the past haven't looked at why I've done this, so, in some ways you're better off doing this early even tho it may be a PITA.
The guilt tripping you mother did is something that's a dysfunctional, manipulative process lotsa people do, my mother included when she was diagnosed with lung cancer from smoking for 45 years. A bit of background here with her. My relationship had soured years before the cancer. By dictionary definition, she was a spiteful, malicious, controlling woman, which is she was a bitch, and didn't have any religious faith what so ever. My old man was a drunk, and she enabled him for all her married life. Nothin' new or outta the ordinary there. But on her own, both the one sibling I've got, a brother, were used as pawns between them throughout their married life, especially when the old mans philandering got obvious and she threw his ass out of the house. It was her and my brother who looked like her, V. me and the old man, literally. Not that I condoned at all his behavior, but I didn't want to see the verbal brawling these two went thru. I didn't need it. I had enough of a time just trying to keep myself together in their house.
Also, by my investigating her family I'd found she was a parentified child, and never knew her mother who was committed to an asylum when she was 2 y.o.
So the guilt trips by others were induced after her death, or at least tried on me to go to her funeral, which I didn't. That was 25 years ago, so I can see/understand the shitty place you're in. For me it was probably easier to not care because of prior things that went down, but it seems you don't have that which makes it tough.
What I see is that with your kids you need to be there for them, without sacrificing your process with your mother. If you can find it, take time to both think, which I believe you have, about the situation intellectually, and then feel it emotionally. Which is a bitch in itself. That's the tougher of the two parts. There' some betrayal on their part that you could feel, and they probably feel the same since you 'aint' in the fold' any longer. You've got your particulars to deal with, and they've got theirs and it seems never the twain shall meet, sorry to say. Put that in the back of your mind if things if needed, cause it could lead to a complete break between you and family.
It can be an extremely lonely journey to strike out on your own without family if that comes to pass. But if that's the direction you head it, with the puter you've got a very good way to help yourself, as you might have thought upon to finding this website. Keep usin' it.
I don't want to get to be too much of a 'downer' about your situation, but it could happen if they're adamant about having you do what they want, and you're not wanting to go back to that kind of mindset.
I'd think there's enough there for you, so chew on it and see what you come up with. Get back to me if you want.
Lastly, so you think you're the only one who can get wordy. Think again......
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