The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
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22-05-2013, 04:01 PM
RE: The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
its so pathetic that some will cling to such flimsy beliefs in order to prop up their bigger belief in a diety. Theists are a culture of negativity at their very core:

You are sinners from birth to death
You are not worthy and need to prove yourself
So many restrictive rules contrary to basic biological function its comical
They love to be quite negative about any scientific or logical statement that is against their beliefs but offer none supporting their own.
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22-05-2013, 04:46 PM
RE: The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
(22-05-2013 02:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:So they wrapped his entire body (head included) in one shroud, and then wrapped another cloth over the first shroud around his head?

Sorry for the late reply.

The two cloth method was what they did (along with other cultural practices they we presentists have to be leery about judging). I find it compelling that there is both a full body shroud and a head cloth with the image, and that both have source histories that date them very early, far earlier than Da Vinci's time (and code). Wink

No, the shroud appears de novo in the 14th century.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-05-2013, 09:15 AM
RE: The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
The Blood and The Shroud is one book that traces the shroud through attestation and documents to the 2nd century CE or so (from memory):

http://www.amazon.com/The-Blood-Shroud-E...0684853590
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23-05-2013, 09:25 AM
RE: The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
Quote:its so pathetic that some will cling to such flimsy beliefs in order to prop up their bigger belief in a diety. Theists are a culture of negativity at their very core:

You are sinners from birth to death
You are not worthy and need to prove yourself
So many restrictive rules contrary to basic biological function its comical
They love to be quite negative about any scientific or logical statement that is against their beliefs but offer none supporting their own.

Um, biblically speaking:

*I WAS a sinner and am now a redeemed saint

*I WAS unworthy, could not prove myself, and am given a free gift of forgiveness--it's the religious adherents who are bound by the guilt and performance cycle you mentioned

*Rules restrictive to biological function? Sexual behaviors that don't lead to STDs, marriage behaviors that stave off divorce, disciplinary and educational behaviors that lead to obedient, happy children, lifestyle behaviors that avoid drug and alcohol addictions, etc.

*I adore the sciences although my preference is for social sciences. I delight in all kinds of logical and philosophical exercises. I may be a little jaded or negative from spending time on 1 vs. 100 kind of forum and living in a debased culture that worships at the altar of science, but I both love science and logic and bring to it to bear without "spiritual jargon" in our discussions here.

Why does it often sound like people on here are attacking Poes, not real, valid Christian believers?
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23-05-2013, 09:27 AM
RE: The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
(23-05-2013 09:15 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The Blood and The Shroud is one book that traces the shroud through attestation and documents to the 2nd century CE or so (from memory):

http://www.amazon.com/The-Blood-Shroud-E...0684853590

No, there are only vague references that don't match the facts. He is convinced it is real and will do anything to support his belief.

Apparently, you will too.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-05-2013, 02:10 PM
RE: The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
Quote:No, there are only vague references that don't match the facts. He is convinced it is real and will do anything to support his belief.

Apparently, you will too.

I see. You read this book in its entirety, then?
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23-05-2013, 02:12 PM
RE: The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
(23-05-2013 02:10 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:No, there are only vague references that don't match the facts. He is convinced it is real and will do anything to support his belief.

Apparently, you will too.

I see. You read this book in its entirety, then?

That's really weak, coming from you.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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24-05-2013, 01:34 PM
RE: The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
Quote:That's really weak, coming from you.

Actually, I found it to be dead on. Likewise, you criticize the Bible as untrue. How many volumes of JDEP theory have you read? How many times have you read the Bible?
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24-05-2013, 01:48 PM
RE: The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
Create your own shroud and give it a real good look. One would think it's that simple for each person, but somehow it's not enough.
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24-05-2013, 01:57 PM
RE: The shroud of Turin isn't a forgery!
(24-05-2013 01:34 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
Quote:That's really weak, coming from you.

Actually, I found it to be dead on. Likewise, you criticize the Bible as untrue. How many volumes of JDEP theory have you read? How many times have you read the Bible?

I have read the entire Bible, some parts several times. I have read enough archaeology, textual criticism, and history to recognize a work of myth.

Your lack of understanding of the real world is the problem here.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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