The sin nature of man
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24-11-2015, 08:32 PM
RE: The sin nature of man
(24-11-2015 01:48 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, yes. Before God sends us here He prepares us. We live with God before we come here. There are many years of preparations. millions of years? billions of years?

OK, I don't know what religion you follow.

Personally, I was raised Roman Catholic. I have been around the church and basically/average religious people my entire life.

Moreover, every single time I have ever heard anyone mention the Adam/Eve/Snake story, no matter what religion, no matter what context, it has always been a negative one.

Every single conversation, every sermon, every passing mention in pop culture, every single time, the story has been a negative one.

Finally, your interpretation of the tale stretches and distorts it beyond recognition. Such interpretations reveal the malleable nature of the texts and shows what lengths people can go to twist the bible to suit their own ends.

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24-11-2015, 08:42 PM
RE: The sin nature of man
(24-11-2015 08:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(24-11-2015 01:48 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes, yes. Before God sends us here He prepares us. We live with God before we come here. There are many years of preparations. millions of years? billions of years?

OK, I don't know what religion you follow.

Personally, I was raised Roman Catholic. I have been around the church and basically/average religious people my entire life.

Moreover, every single time I have ever heard anyone mention the Adam/Eve/Snake story, no matter what religion, no matter what context, it has always been a negative one.

Every single conversation, every sermon, every passing mention in pop culture, every single time, the story has been a negative one.

Finally, your interpretation of the tale stretches and distorts it beyond recognition. Such interpretations reveal the malleable nature of the texts and shows what lengths people can go to twist the bible to suit their own ends.

I am LDS(Mormons)

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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24-11-2015, 08:50 PM
RE: The sin nature of man
I like Alla but she is a nutcase. Tongue
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24-11-2015, 10:22 PM
RE: The sin nature of man

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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24-11-2015, 10:23 PM (This post was last modified: 24-11-2015 10:31 PM by The Organic Chemist.)
RE: The sin nature of man
There you go shifting the burden of proof again. You still fail to answer some basic questions that I have posed (and I am not the only one who has asked them).

1) please provide the mechanism that you use to discern your particular faith claims from other claims
2) please provide evidence for why there is even a god to begin with (i.e. deism)
3) After you do step 2, please provide the methodology you used to arrive that your god is the correct one.

I do not have to provide proof against it's existence, I am not saying there is definitely no god, I just find no argument compelling nor the "evidence" provided satisfactory. Please learn the difference.

(24-11-2015 07:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  I didn't tell you that I am correct and you are incorrect. I only asked: how do you know that your understanding is correct?

Yes you did. This is the reply you are referring to.
(24-11-2015 03:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  The Organic Chemist
Is it likely true? No.
Why do I think this? Because there is a MOUNTAIN of evidence that does not require a supernatural explanation for how we evolved. It is called following where the evidence points. If new evidence arises, I will reevaluate my position. That is called honesty.
Alla
So, when you don't believe it but you still want to understand what you don't believe, then you want to understand it for a wrong reason. I don't say it is not genuine curiosity, but curiosity is a wrong reason for understanding of spiritual things.
This is what I wanted to tell you.

You did not ask me anything. I was the one who asked how YOU knew. Stop trying to turn this around. It is in print for all to see. Read it again if it helps. I answered your question already.

(24-11-2015 03:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  What's wrong with this. It will be many stars that are not born yet but Earth exists for a long time.

What's wrong with this? Have you even READ Genesis 1 and 2? The Earth was not created before any of the stars, we have no evidence that it happened that way. We do however, have evidence that for billions of years, stars formed and died before our star and Earth were even born. This is a direct contradiction to what the book says so it is reasonable to think that the book was not written/inspired by a higher power who knew that we would figure that out eventually.

(24-11-2015 03:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  How do you know it is correct? I am not telling you it is not. But how do you know it?

I said I think I do, not I know I do. Big difference. I gave a short explanation why, did you read it? I am well aware that English isn't your first language but certainly in your vernacular, 1 word can make all the difference. I shouldn't have to tell you this.

(24-11-2015 03:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  All these questions that you ask will never convince you to believe in God. Never.
Until you have an answer to this question: "God, are you really there?" all other questions have to wait.

Been there, done that. I, like many here, used to be a believer you know.

(24-11-2015 03:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  If you know about the Bible than you know that there is no claim that all you need to do is to repent to be forgiven.

Seriously? Try 1 John 1:9, Luke 13:3, Acts 3:19, 2 Peter 3:9, Acts 2:38, Luke 13:5 to name a few.

(24-11-2015 03:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  Smile I believe you.
I don't know this but I believe that this revelation from God is true.

Again, by what methodology do you differentiate from other claims of revelation that contradict what you think is revelation? Stop dodging and answer the damn question.

(24-11-2015 03:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  God doesn't teach about Universe. Why would He if we have to do this? If we don't learn about Universe by working hard and by searching, we would not learn how to progress. We are here to learn how to progress.
Simple logic. Why would you tell me how to solve math problem when you know that I am capable to do it by myself?

Then why are there so many things in his word that demonstrate that the authors had no idea how the world worked?
The bible says that you can breed goats by looking at particular sticks. FALSE
The bible says that you can cure leprosy by a blood sacrifice. FALSE
The entirety of Genesis 1 and 2 are FALSE.
The bible claims a worldwide flood. FALSE
The bible claims that there was a 3 hour eclipse. FALSE
Are you even thinking before you type?

Again, most of the things that the book claims are FALSE. A more accurate analogy would be for me to show the the math problem incorrectly but then threatened you if you ever looked at any other math books or teachers.

(24-11-2015 03:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  God didn't send us here to agree on everything. He sent us here to learn and to progress.

The main problem is that a large amount of the suffering in this world is cause because his precious creations can't agree on his nature or who he even is.

(24-11-2015 03:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  He could but He wants us to fix it. He knows we can when we really try. All of us can make this place more peaceful place. We have this potential. We have to magnify our potential.

I agree that we want a peaceful world. Too bad that the parties of god are causing so much turmoil. If he just set the record straight, that would fix it. There would still be a ton of other issues to tackle even if we all agreed on the nature of god.

(24-11-2015 03:56 PM)Alla Wrote:  When Jesus appears in His resurrected body you will know. You will be convinced.

At least that would settle the discussion for crying out loud. Just don't be too disappointed if he has the head of an elephant or speaks Arabic.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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24-11-2015, 10:50 PM
RE: The sin nature of man
(24-11-2015 08:42 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(24-11-2015 08:32 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  OK, I don't know what religion you follow.

Personally, I was raised Roman Catholic. I have been around the church and basically/average religious people my entire life.

Moreover, every single time I have ever heard anyone mention the Adam/Eve/Snake story, no matter what religion, no matter what context, it has always been a negative one.

Every single conversation, every sermon, every passing mention in pop culture, every single time, the story has been a negative one.

Finally, your interpretation of the tale stretches and distorts it beyond recognition. Such interpretations reveal the malleable nature of the texts and shows what lengths people can go to twist the bible to suit their own ends.

I am LDS(Mormons)

I take it you're more *latter* than *saint*.
Dodgy
You are a pretty funny poe.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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25-11-2015, 12:15 AM
RE: The sin nature of man
(22-11-2015 10:28 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  TL/DR part:
The sin nature of man is a completely stupid idea on many levels and this hat is really hurting my brain. (removes it and throws it into the dusty closet )
Any thoughts?
Some!

Define sin! However you define it one thing is certain: it's a religious concept. No one talks about sin except in church. In a secular court they talk about crime, felony, misdemeanor, never sin. While it's convenient for theists to include crimes such as murder, theft, etc. as sins, sins are basically religious: have no other gods before me, make no idols, don't curse, go to church.

And what is the unforgivable sin? Disbelief. Thou shalt not put the lord thy god to the test. How convenient! It's the old "the emperor has no cloths" story. It doesn't work for non-believers, the same story sold with ESP, UFOs, snake oil salesmen.

Christianity is a solution looking for a problem. It's not enough to say that if you are a good person and do good works then you will go to heaven. By that criteria a lot of non-believers could get in. There has to be something wrong with you. So they come up with "original sin". The Christians would have it that we are all born evil. No one is born evil. The whole concept is bullshit.

Sapere aude
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25-11-2015, 12:12 PM
RE: The sin nature of man
fstop
Define sin!
Alla
Sure. Sin is breaking God's Laws. Every time I break God's law and I know/understand I do this, I sin. Every time I break God's law and I don't know/don't understand I do this, I transgress the law.

fstop
And what is the unforgivable sin? Disbelief.
Alla
Not true. There is only one unforgivable sin - sin against the Holy Ghost.

fstop
It's not enough to say that if you are a good person and do good works then you will go to heaven.
Alla
True, it is not enough for one reason. Every good person who does good works also breaks and transgress God's laws. If you are good person and do good works and you NEVER break God's laws, then you don't need faith, you can go to heaven. But there are no people like this. Every good person broke or transgressed at least one law of God. By breaking one law we break all.

fstop
So they come up with "original sin". The Christians would have it that we are all born evil. No one is born evil. The whole concept is bullshit.
Alla
I agree with you, it is BS. There is no such things as "original sin".
I agree with you, no one is born evil.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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25-11-2015, 12:18 PM
RE: The sin nature of man
(24-11-2015 10:50 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-11-2015 08:42 PM)Alla Wrote:  I am LDS(Mormons)

I take it you're more *latter* than *saint*.
Dodgy
You are a pretty funny poe.

I don't even know who Poe is. I am reading, reading the definition and I still don't get it.
But I do like Edgar Poe's writings. Smile
If someone explains to me very well what it means and I see that I am Poe, I will admit it even if it will mean that everyone will ridicule me.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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25-11-2015, 12:21 PM
RE: The sin nature of man
(24-11-2015 10:50 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-11-2015 08:42 PM)Alla Wrote:  I am LDS(Mormons)

I take it you're more *latter* than *saint*.
Dodgy
You are a pretty funny poe.

it is because you don't know LDS definition of word "saint". You probably know Catholic definition. I am not saint according to their(Catholics) definition. Smile

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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