The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
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21-08-2013, 05:16 PM
RE: The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
cjlr, how many alleles are unique to one specific population whose membership is not defined by that genetic trait. For example, how many alleles are unique to a particular geographic area or to a particular culture?

(possibly excluding some family-only alleles and other very recent mutations)

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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21-08-2013, 06:20 PM
RE: The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
(21-08-2013 05:16 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  cjlr, how many alleles are unique to one specific population whose membership is not defined by that genetic trait. For example, how many alleles are unique to a particular geographic area or to a particular culture?

(possibly excluding some family-only alleles and other very recent mutations)

That's a pretty technical question and I have absolutely no idea as to the specifics. I quite honestly haven't done too much reading on the subject. It's not my field, but I try and know enough to know when other people are full of shit (*cough* OP), as it were Tongue.

The only generally accepted variations are the obvious ones - physical. When it comes to humans there are physical traits which obviously vary between populations. But even then, traits are found in essentially continuous distributions (allowing for a little more drift in a very few extremely isolated exceptions - mountain valleys, islands), and so to find a distinct population requires finding the intersection of several such traits. This is a very narrow physical anthropological matter.

Arguably 'race' is too loaded a word to be of any use. What I mean is, it is quite possible to determine statistically differentiable populations within humans. This is inevitably so in examining any numerous and widely geographically dispersed species! But, as I said, it bears absolutely no relation to old-school 'racism' and is limited to superficial morphology in any case. For something such as, oh, intelligence: that is not dependent on a single or a very few genes, that is highly dependent on developmental factors, and that is tremendously difficult to quantify regardless - the chance of there being statistically significant variation between populations, when there is such wide variation within populations, is unimaginably insignificant.

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21-08-2013, 07:03 PM
RE: The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
Lets say we have a black guy and a white guy who live in - Atlanta. (totally arbitrary, but they live in the same US city). Both are racist.

They individually go on vacation, run into a hostile group of people and are captured and imprisoned together.

Suddenly their differences pale when compared to what they have in common. Not only are they both captive, their Southern US accent seems very similar all of a sudden, they know some of the same places, foods, etc. etc. They are familiar. They belong together against the bad guys, the captors.

There actually is no such thing as racism on it's own merit. Racism is a side product of the human tendency to belong to groups. It just so happens that race is a visible difference and makes it easy to define a group.

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21-08-2013, 07:43 PM (This post was last modified: 21-08-2013 07:48 PM by ridethespiral.)
RE: The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
(21-08-2013 05:16 PM)Hafnof Wrote:  cjlr, how many alleles are unique to one specific population whose membership is not defined by that genetic trait. For example, how many alleles are unique to a particular geographic area or to a particular culture?

(possibly excluding some family-only alleles and other very recent mutations)

It would depend on how many generations they are removed from neighboring populations, the size of those populations, etc.

Nat Geo did a special where they tracked human migration/expansion out of Africa via DNA comparison that gives you an idea of how racial groups became separated and what cultures/races are more closely related to each other.




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21-08-2013, 10:25 PM
RE: The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
(21-08-2013 02:52 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(21-08-2013 01:24 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote:  The solution to racism is to abandon the concept of "race" altogether. The differences between us are so subtle that the word is irrelevant.

Well, that's not even quite true...

If by 'race' you mean 'human populations which are genetically distinct in a biologically meaningful way', then such a thing is demonstrable. Of course, there are then hundreds of 'races', which bear little to no resemblance to the deranged phantasm classical racists espouse.

There's a distinction between "race" and "culture"... Race as I understand it, refers to genetics and appearance, nothing more. Culture is an entirely different area encompassing religion, art, cuisine, music, language etc.

The fact that we are racially classified as either black, white, Asian, Hispanic etc, is unnecessary and only creates further divides in our societies.

We are divided enough, without people being driven further apart by mere appearance.

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22-08-2013, 10:02 AM
RE: The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
When people get raised right, they should view race and color as in animals. A black cat is a cat nonetheless. A spotted dog is still a dog. A brownish person is still a person.

Of course, economy has to go along with this. There will be racism as long as a skin color is a very helpful guideline to that person's culture - economic level, family background, criminal record, method of income, language, voice and accent, education level and so on. That's not racism, but a good basis for it.

I am very likely not used to dealing with black people and I am a little inclined to take a good look (stare) in surprise. When someone comes from around a corner, my whole life in a 100 % Caucasian region taught me to expect a white face, not black or dark brown. I've got to take a second look, if that's not a guy in black mask wanting to rob me. I've got slow reactions. But that's not racism.


You know what? Last week a gypsy stopped me on the street. He was VERY friendly and polite. He asked me, if I'm a racist. Together we agreed, as he suggested, that I judge people as they behave, not by race. Then he started handing me expensive gifts, perfumes and watches, hundreds of bucks worth. (obviously stolen) As a gift for me that I am not a racist. I tried to resist, saying that I don't need nor want this stuff, but he was very insistent. Then later, among this politeness, when I had put the goods into my pack, he mentioned something about reimbursement, that he needs travel money to get home. It was just a few dozen bucks worth, but I don't have even this kind of money on me and I wouldn't give them for perfumes and watches. So I gave him the stuff back (threatening to just put it on ground and walk away if he doesn't take it) So I told him I'm sorry, I don't have money and that was it, I went away.
Later on Facebook I got confirmed, that this is a common gypsy practice around here. Go figure. I don't know much about local minorities, but I'm pretty sure non-racists will be among them.

I don't know what to think, but I bought myself a small pepper spray, just in case. It should help me to be more confident in dealing with ethnic minorities, next time. After all, the city is a jungle and I should have some basic mechanism of defense.

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26-08-2013, 08:12 AM
RE: The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
(03-08-2013 03:15 PM)ELK12695 Wrote:  
(03-08-2013 12:25 AM)janthuffy Wrote:  solution to ending "racism"





You're right Fstratzero, it does make sense.

And about "mixing up races"... I might hate Beyonce's music, but I would still bang her if she asked me to.

that's a free man. Smile
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26-08-2013, 08:17 AM
RE: The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
(03-08-2013 02:32 PM)Luminon Wrote:  Racism? Historians say, every time the economy of Germany went to shit, Germans started hating Jews. Jews, who were just living there for centuries. Even the Jews who were dressed all normal, all popular and working in offices, like Franz Kafka. No matter what, when German economy got fucked up, Germans found their Jews to hang no matter of their visual mimicry. The last time it happened, it was the Great Depression of 1929 and took a couple of years to reach Germany. It swept through in about 1934-36 and I heard around that time it got into power some Austrian chancellor Schicktelgruber, a.k.a. Hiedler, a.k.a. Hitler. I heard he was a real racist asshole.

Now, blacks had it even worse, they were for centuries balls-deep in New World's economy, so to speak. Freeing them ruined some good plantations, which was a real unpopular step in the South. It got better thanks to the end of apartheid and MLK's life on the line. But then the U.S. govt. wanted to HELP the blacks. By taking the white money and giving it to black unwed mothers. But the money have this bad property, if you give them to someone, suddenly there's more someones wanting more money. Guess what, black population became full of unwed mothers out of work, waiting in the line for welfare money. So my liberal economy teachers say.
Blacks used to be pretty decent citizens, working, married and with families. Religious too, that gives a sense of community. After the government "helped" them, they're almost like Gypsies and Native Americans in government-regulated reservations. And whites founded their own churches.

So, my preliminary conclusion based on available data is this.
Economy causes racism and economy + government makes it worse. If a 100 white guys should independently decide to fire a white employee or a black employee, I don't even want to know what the result would be. Mixed classes of kids should help a little, I'm definitely in favor of that, but the economy still needs fixing.

I think you have a point about economics.

But about the Germans they restored the economy massively, but communism destroyed the economy, and many jews were communist agitators and many communist agitators and revolutionaries were jewish as well as many bankers and media people. We should not blame a class of people. The jewish people are very almost always very influential in the nations they live in around the world and very unified, and they are deeply embedded, they often try to re-engineer the culture of their hosts as they have done in the US and my (part jewish) friend says they are doing in his home country of Austria, via Turkish immigration.

Back to your main point, I think economics hits people the hardest, because when you have a good economy you can live free and happy and have relationships and children and self confidence, let alone food and roof.
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26-08-2013, 08:27 AM
RE: The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
alright to the OP and main topic:

What is most hateful is hypocrisy and nice races finish last. I'm thinking of whites of which I'm one. We're too damn nice. We are too self hating too disorganized and lack solidarity, even have anti-solidarity. Trying get whites to unite as a group is like trying to part the red sea. They don't want to identify as a group because they are individualistic and proud. Because they are not a "minority". BS they are not a minority. They are a small and dwindling minority. They currently have no territory of their own, no homeland for their race unlike every other even Jews now. They persecute their own ones who stand up on their behalf like that guy from ND and get hounded and destroyed by the SPLC and ADL though they commit no actual real crimes.

Whites or IndoEuropeans created civilizations all from Greece and Rome to probably Egypt and maybe Sumeria, and India. I love my Indo-Europeans. Arthur Kemp says a lot of these civilizations fell because the genetic stock that created them disappeared, was mixed away, so that even if people spoke the same language or lived on the same territory, for example Rome, if they were not the same stock they can't create or maintain the same civilization. This makes so much sense but it is so politically incorrect. And he argues that their stock disappeared in many civilizations largely due to 1. internecine warfare 2. importing slaves and intermarrying with them 3. ideologies of universalism or multiculturalism (especially roman empire).

Eugenics is so beautiful and natural and healthy, and dysgenics is so scary and frightening, more than anything else to me, but who can turn a tide? There is no God to pray to but in this world we must work and fight for what we want. If a universal intelligence exists which created the world, I think he might care about what happens but I don't think he would intervene, like the Judeo Christian God Yahweh Elohim. Even if such a god exists to pray to him is to become dependent neurotics.. that's what judeo christianity does to a person
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26-08-2013, 09:44 AM
RE: The solution to ending "racism" - Mix 'em up!
(26-08-2013 08:27 AM)viking Wrote:  Arthur Kemp says a lot of these civilizations fell because the genetic stock that created them disappeared, was mixed away, so that even if people spoke the same language or lived on the same territory, for example Rome, if they were not the same stock they can't create or maintain the same civilization. This makes so much sense but it is so politically incorrect.

This makes no sense. There are not the kinds of racial differences that this idea requires.

Try again.

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