The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
08-04-2014, 11:57 AM
RE: The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
(07-04-2014 02:44 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 01:21 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  I used that argument. She said humans a different from those animals.

How? Homosexuality has been observed in chimpanzees; we genetically differ from them by 2%. So, somehow that 2% (among all other differences) determines that human homosexuality is different than "animal" homosexuality?
It sounds like she is allowing arrogance and a superiority complex to mentally separate humans from the rest of life on this planet. It's not her fault; I'm sure she was raised that way.
So, in her rationale, human homosexuality is unnatural. Then, why does it exist? By choice? That would imply that each of us has made a sexuality choice. Ask her if she sat down one pre-pubescent day to weigh her options. Homo or hetero? Taco or sausage? I'd bet that she just did what felt natural... as does everyone.
A homosexual friend of mine described a childhood experience to me. It was that first inexplicable crush on another person. He had a crush on another boy. It wasn't sexual, and it wasn't a choice. He was a child having natural feelings.

i find this odd. For all intents and purposes, the "marriage" between other animals - at the heart of it - is often really between the females, with a male beign no more than a sperm donor. Often, the pairing for offspring rearing is female to female. I don't really consider the brief coupling of male/female for copulation to be "a heterosexual" union, if the majority of the female's life is spent with the other females.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
(07-04-2014 12:35 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 12:33 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  How, exactly?

I believe Dawkins has said something about evolution and homosexuality but I can't really remember now.

It goes along the lines, humans need to reproduce to survive, homosexuals don't allow reproduction, thus hindering the species.

Homosexuals can still reproduce even if doing so isn't as enjoyable as a same-sex relationship for them.

Homosexuals can help take care of other people's children - for example, adoptions - and therefore contribute to survival of the species.

Homosexual can engage in roles such as becoming a doctor and therefore contribute to survival of the species.

Some day, the world may suffer from overpopulation. The presence of homosexuals will slow us from reaching that end.

Silence is only golden when it's not synonymous with a failure to speak out against injustice.

"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes." --Gene Roddenberry
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2014, 04:07 PM
RE: The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
(07-04-2014 12:35 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 12:33 PM)undergroundp Wrote:  How, exactly?

I believe Dawkins has said something about evolution and homosexuality but I can't really remember now.

It goes along the lines, humans need to reproduce to survive, homosexuals don't allow reproduction, thus hindering the species.

I've seen these arguments quite a bit, and it's getting kind of repetitive...

If one decides to oppose homosexuality on the basis of reproduction alone, neuter animals serve to make their argument a little more fun.

Some of the most successful groups of species on earth (ants namely) have large castes of neuters which cannot breed at all, this does not mean they are detrimental; they serve their purposes just as their fertile co-workers do. Nor do they hinder their species. Lacking in reproductive ability doesn't affect them.

Now, sure some could say 'insects work differently than humans' and it's true enough to an extent, but even with comparatively large populations of breeding-incapable individuals, the species' go absolutely unhampered.

But I could also bring up anything from flamingos to penguins; last I read it was something like well above of 200 distinct species have demonstrated homosexual tendencies and even life time pair-bonding, which does not inhibit their capacity for survival either.

Besides, with a population numbering in the billions, it really does not matter in the slightest for reproduction; Humanity at this point has many reserves; reproduction wont be hurt in the slightest by them icky gays. Plus, gays can still breed, they just tend to not want to.

A single action is worth more than the words it takes to describe it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2014, 04:29 PM
RE: The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
Or you could ask her why she is trying to use pseudo-science to rationalise her bigotry against gays when she could just admit to herself and others how uncomfortable she feels about homosexuality.

When she objects to this ask if any of the points raised in this thread will make her change how she feels about homosexuality. She'll feel uncomfortable because she knows that it won't change her mind.

When she consequently tries and fails to argue against all the valid points you raise, she'll change the subject or get irritable rather than concede the argument which would mean admitting that she is wrong. That's when you point out that she is trying to find reasons to hate homosexuality rather than admit to having a prejudice against it.

After all, why should she care about evolution and the global population figures? How does this affect her day to day life?

Next ask her who she knows who agrees with her stance on homosexuality. It will probably include religious people and bigoted mainstream media conditioning her. Ask her what their reasons are.

There's nothing like getting to the heart of the matter.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Mathilda's post
08-04-2014, 04:38 PM
RE: The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
(07-04-2014 12:51 PM)Blackhand293 Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 12:35 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  It goes along the lines, humans need to reproduce to survive, homosexuals don't allow reproduction, thus hindering the species.

I wish i could remember that paper I read that said there may be an epigentic link between female fertility and homosexuality.

It boiled down to that the sequence that coded for increased fertility in females, would be a possible cause of male homosexuality.

So there would be an evolutionary reason as to why it hasn't been selected out of our species

Not necessarily. Frogs, and some other species start to exhibit homosexual behavior in response to overpopulation.

However, homosexual behavior isn't all that uncommon in many animals.

Quote:Homosexual behavior in animals is sexual behavior among non-human species that may be interpreted as homosexual or bisexual. This may include sexual activity, courtship, affection, pair bonding, and parenting among same-sex animal pairs. Research indicates that various forms of this are found throughout the animal kingdom.[1][2] As of 1999, nearly 1,500 species, ranging from primates to gut worms, have been observed engaging in same-sex behaviors; this is well documented in about 500 species.[3][4]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexua...in_animals

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2014, 04:44 PM
RE: The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
(07-04-2014 02:24 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-04-2014 02:04 PM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  I honestly think it is used to form bonds sexually in the species, or to secretly disguise them selves so that they can mate with all the females with other males not fearing them.

I should have said 'reasons' in my post.

One explanation is that homosexuality is neither beneficial nor harmful, so it is not 'visible to' selection. That is, there are some slight benefits and some slight negatives. For example, homosexual individuals may not, themselves, pass on their genes, but they may help the survival of their close kin who share most of their genes including the ones that contribute to homosexuality.

Natural selection works in mysterious ways its wonders to perform. Drinking Beverage

The probability that additional sons, (after the first one) will be gay is much higher than for the first son. There is a perfectly reasonable Evolutionary explanation for that. There is also a YouTube of Dawkins talking about the gay gene. The fallacy in all this is that human sexuality is binary. One or the other. It's not. Human sexual behaviors are exhibited over a vast range of behaviors, under a Bell curve distribution.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Political skeptic .. if there is a bad reason something bad might have happened, you can bet your ass, that's why it happened.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
08-04-2014, 05:16 PM
RE: The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
Ask your mum if she likes James Dean.

What a spoilt little queen. Smile

Recently suffered loss of intelligence. Had little to begin with! I should not miss it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2014, 10:25 PM
RE: The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
(08-04-2014 04:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The fallacy in all this is that human sexuality is binary. One or the other. It's not. Human sexual behaviors are exhibited over a vast range of behaviors, under a Bell curve distribution.
I have heard that too. Oddly, men tend to be at either end of the sliding scale, while women fall into the middle areas and experience more bisexual tendencies.

[Image: images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRcmPL4codsbtiJhpFav3r...-w_49ttW6a]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
08-04-2014, 10:37 PM
RE: The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
(08-04-2014 10:25 PM)Jeffasaurus Wrote:  
(08-04-2014 04:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The fallacy in all this is that human sexuality is binary. One or the other. It's not. Human sexual behaviors are exhibited over a vast range of behaviors, under a Bell curve distribution.
I have heard that too. Oddly, men tend to be at either end of the sliding scale, while women fall into the middle areas and experience more bisexual tendencies.

Doesn't Thailand recognize 3-4 sexes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_gender

Throughout history conversions happen at the point of a sword, deconversions at the point of a pen - FC

I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man's reasoning powers are not above the monkey's. - Mark Twain in Eruption
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
27-04-2014, 12:21 PM
RE: The strangest argument against homosexuality I have ever heard.
Personally, I think that gay folks are born that way. But, every chance I get, I try to fight against the biological argument.

My stance is this: it doesn't matter if homosexuality is natural or not - though, no work to better understand ourselves on a scientific level should stop. What consenting adults do with their own body, for pleasure or otherwise, should be a valid choice as based on their own happiness and fulfillment. Who people love and live with, as long as they're consenting adults, should be their own choice.

When Lady Gaga sings born this way, I don't disagree. But, I do add that, whether or not anyone was born with their particular set of same or opposite sex attractions, their choices to follow their attractions, experiment with others, etc., is totally 100% okay.

"The truth must dazzle gradually / or every man be blind." Emily Dickinson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: