The systemic errancy problem of the scribes of Antiquity
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15-08-2015, 07:09 PM (This post was last modified: 15-08-2015 08:04 PM by docskeptic.)
RE: The systemic errancy problem of the scribes of Antiquity
Good one, GWOG. Someday, I may do a post on the type of copying errors: dittography, haplography, etc. Meanwhile, as you say, the problem was so acute that scribes left critiques of each other in their works. For example, in the margin opposite Hebrews 1:3 in the Codex Vaticanus, a later scribe criticized an earlier scribe saying "Fool and knave, can't you leave the old reading alone and not alter it!"

Doc
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15-08-2015, 07:13 PM
RE: The systemic errancy problem of the scribes of Antiquity
(15-08-2015 06:22 PM)cjlr Wrote:  That's a very good point, goodwithoutgod, and you seem like a clever young man, but I'm afraid it's turtles divine inspiration all the way down.

CHECKMATE, ATHEISTS.

EDIT:
GODDAMNIT BUCKY
(15-08-2015 04:33 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  BTW : "Inspiration". Checkmate atheists. Weeping

So much for my lame attempt at sarcasm. Facepalm
Weeping

I'll go on retreat at the noodle factory, and the FSM can whip me. Yes

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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15-08-2015, 09:15 PM
RE: The systemic errancy problem of the scribes of Antiquity
(15-08-2015 05:49 PM)epronovost Wrote:  Fun fact. Did you know that the famous Jesus quote: «may the one without sin cast the first stone.» Was an addition written in the margin of a 4th century manuscript and was most likely a comment on the response of Jesus. In the original Jesus's replies is unknown since he just wrote something on the ground and left without saying anything. We don't know what happen to that women either.

Pffft. "Jesus's replies is unknown"?! Hell, we don't even know if the whole incident ever took place.

Dodgy

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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15-08-2015, 10:04 PM
RE: The systemic errancy problem of the scribes of Antiquity
(15-08-2015 10:46 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  ...
Even the opening verses 1:1 – 18, ... was added as an appropriate beginning by someone other than the author after an earlier edition of the book had already been published and circulated? Perhaps.
...

And thus the Executive Summary was created.

And the Editor saw that it was good.

Big Grin

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16-08-2015, 08:27 AM
RE: The systemic errancy problem of the scribes of Antiquity
Being bi lingual, it is a lengthy process that our laws are translated in to French but also interpreted in a way that there is identical meaning. Would the ancients have done this?
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16-08-2015, 08:49 AM
RE: The systemic errancy problem of the scribes of Antiquity
(15-08-2015 07:09 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Good one, GWOG. Someday, I may do a post on the type of copying errors: dittography, haplography, etc. Meanwhile, as you say, the problem was so acute that scribes left critiques of each other in their works. For example, in the margin opposite Hebrews 1:3 in the Codex Vaticanus, a later scribe criticized an earlier scribe saying "Fool and knave, can't you leave the old reading alone and not alter it!"

Doc

Thanks Doc, your opinion and support means a lot to me. I enjoy your work as well.


(16-08-2015 08:27 AM)Takelababy Wrote:  Being bi lingual, it is a lengthy process that our laws are translated in to French but also interpreted in a way that there is identical meaning. Would the ancients have done this?

Great point. Translations errors brings another level of issues....which makes me scratch my head and wonder how Young Earth Creationists/literalists/fundamentalists can assert the bible is inerrant.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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16-08-2015, 08:57 AM
RE: The systemic errancy problem of the scribes of Antiquity
At work.

I must admit..... has/is there any effort being put into not only gathering all the current known copies of the Bible together but, with the added insight of our better University/Science knowledge understanding, of trying to get back to an 'Original' kind of document?

Also, where might some one be able to peruse all the 'Gnostic' stuff online?
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16-08-2015, 09:31 AM
RE: The systemic errancy problem of the scribes of Antiquity
(16-08-2015 08:49 AM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  
(15-08-2015 07:09 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  Good one, GWOG. Someday, I may do a post on the type of copying errors: dittography, haplography, etc. Meanwhile, as you say, the problem was so acute that scribes left critiques of each other in their works. For example, in the margin opposite Hebrews 1:3 in the Codex Vaticanus, a later scribe criticized an earlier scribe saying "Fool and knave, can't you leave the old reading alone and not alter it!"

Doc

Thanks Doc, your opinion and support means a lot to me. I enjoy your work as well.


(16-08-2015 08:27 AM)Takelababy Wrote:  Being bi lingual, it is a lengthy process that our laws are translated in to French but also interpreted in a way that there is identical meaning. Would the ancients have done this?

Great point. Translations errors brings another level of issues....which makes me scratch my head and wonder how Young Earth Creationists/literalists/fundamentalists can assert the bible is inerrant.

Add on that the fact that vowel were developed in the Latin alphabet and in the newer forms of Greek. Both ancient Greeks and Hebrew didn't used vowel when they wrote. Only people with solid reading skills and good knowledge of that specific language and culture could make an efficient translation. That's one of the reason God is both Yahweh and Yahuwah. Translating ancient text can be very difficult especially if there is a large cultural barrier between the writer and the translator which was the case for all Christian text. Bibliolatry is a very strange concept, but authoritarian love it so much they aren't ready to face the truth.
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16-08-2015, 11:01 AM
RE: The systemic errancy problem of the scribes of Antiquity
(16-08-2015 08:57 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

I must admit..... has/is there any effort being put into not only gathering all the current known copies of the Bible together but, with the added insight of our better University/Science knowledge understanding, of trying to get back to an 'Original' kind of document?

Also, where might some one be able to peruse all the 'Gnostic' stuff online?

Great questions and I am not sure about a one stop shop online for this although I am sure it exists. I prefer to flesh out my reading based research with checking scholarly online sources to ensure there hasn't been a breakthrough invalidating the written materials I use. This explains why I have to constantly order new books, I am always worried about posting or asserting a fact that has long been discredited due to more information being discovered. it has happened to me a couple times, including here. Free schooled me a couple times privately on suspect information I had gathered from various scholarly and accredited sources, but that was no longer the solid piece of information I had thought it was. keeping abreast of things and carefully tiptoing through the agenda biased work from both sides of the theological questions can be daunting sometimes.

Keeps my brain working though, and I hope it makes me a better debater and more knowledgeable individual in this area. Unsure

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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