The tipping point for new ideas
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04-01-2012, 02:35 AM
The tipping point for new ideas
I just read this article about social networking and wonder - has atheism reached the tipping point where it spreads like wildfire?

[Image: 2011-0725-scnarc_visual.gif]
Minority Rules: Scientists Discover Tipping Point for the Spread of Ideas


Quote:Scientists at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute have found that when just 10 percent of the population holds an unshakable belief, their belief will always be adopted by the majority of the society. The scientists, who are members of the Social Cognitive Networks Academic Research Center (SCNARC) at Rensselaer, used computational and analytical methods to discover the tipping point where a minority belief becomes the majority opinion. The finding has implications for the study and influence of societal interactions ranging from the spread of innovations to the movement of political ideals.

“When the number of committed opinion holders is below 10 percent, there is no visible progress in the spread of ideas. It would literally take the amount of time comparable to the age of the universe for this size group to reach the majority,” said SCNARC Director Boleslaw Szymanski, the Claire and Roland Schmitt Distinguished Professor at Rensselaer. “Once that number grows above 10 percent, the idea spreads like flame.”

As an example, the ongoing events in Tunisia and Egypt appear to exhibit a similar process, according to Szymanski. “In those countries, dictators who were in power for decades were suddenly overthrown in just a few weeks.

“Forget Jesus, the stars died so you could be born.” - Lawrence M. Krauss
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04-01-2012, 02:53 AM
 
RE: The tipping point for new ideas
That's pretty cool.
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04-01-2012, 03:28 AM
RE: The tipping point for new ideas
Awesome! This could be applicable for so many things. A TED talk should be done on it, lol.
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04-01-2012, 04:27 AM
RE: The tipping point for new ideas
Memories of Troy... hopping in the ride, screaming down Route 2, smoking the weed... what were we talking about again? Deterministic chaos? Yay, chaos!

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04-01-2012, 09:25 AM
RE: The tipping point for new ideas
Malcolm Gladwell has an excellent book on the subject called The Tipping Point.

I think it's safe to say that Atheism is more prevalent today and openly so, than it has been in the past and I could very easily see it usurping Theism as the dominant hegemonic view; however, I wonder if the momentum is not actually travelling in the opposite direction. The American far-right Evangelical movement has been steadily growing in strength since 2000. I ain't happy about that, but the possibility concerns me. Not so much because they're religious but because they're totalitarian.

Generally speaking, the tipping point, as an idea, is very useful. I dig it.

As a memeticist, I find it fascinating. It’s punctuated equilibrium in action.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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04-01-2012, 10:09 AM
RE: The tipping point for new ideas
Does this only work when there's 2 competing beliefs? What if there are hundreds?

James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world"

"Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist." C.S. Lewis
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04-01-2012, 01:03 PM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2012 01:11 PM by Ghost.)
RE: The tipping point for new ideas
Hey, Sharks.

First of all, AWESOME photo!

From my understanding of the theory, it has less to do with a binary competition and more to do with Victor Hugo's idea: On résiste à l'invasion des armées; on ne résiste pas à l'invasion des idées (VERY loosely translated/mutated to: Nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come). It's about genesis. An idea, or belief, or practice or whatever, a cultural trait, comes into existence (memetogenesis if you will) and begins to propagate within the culture. The question is, how does it go from nascent idea to full blown cultural phenomenon; like, say, hockey, Britney Spears, bellbottoms, overthrowing Ghadafi, Satyagraha, Islam, recycling, baseball caps, the mile high club, heavy metal, the list goes on. The point being that it has to reach the tipping point. Once it goes over, poof, paradigm shift.

Every society has its dominant hegemonic view, but it can only have one. So yes, not only can there be hundreds, but there always are hundreds (hundreds being a surrogate for a whole fuckwhack) but this process is how the dominant one becomes the dominant one.

I've never heard of the SCNARC before, but their data seems to show that only 10% of the population has to hold "an unshakable belief". If find it shocking, in a counter-intuitive way, that the number is so low, but data is data. Gladwell talks about the 80/20 rule, that 80% of the work is done by 20% of the population and that the 20% have “a particular and rare set of social gifts” and that their role in change is crucial.

Here's a really clear example of the tipping point in action.

ON EDIT: I wanted to correct myself. It's not just about brand new ideas. It can also be about suppressed cultural traits. Like say, flat earth theory. If enough people believed it, it could see resurgence. We’ve been watching something similar in pop culture for the last 10-15 years; the idea that everything that is old is new. There’s been swing revivals, disco revivals, 80s skinny tie revivals. It’s all the same process.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt
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04-01-2012, 01:21 PM
RE: The tipping point for new ideas
Makes me wanna go donate my body to science. A real live dissected prophet get shit rolling in the right direction... wait a minute, dissected? Maybe next year. Wink

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04-01-2012, 04:33 PM
RE: The tipping point for new ideas
(04-01-2012 01:03 PM)Ghost Wrote:  Hey, Sharks.

First of all, AWESOME photo!

From my understanding of the theory, it has less to do with a binary competition and more to do with Victor Hugo's idea: On résiste à l'invasion des armées; on ne résiste pas à l'invasion des idées (VERY loosely translated/mutated to: Nothing is stronger than an idea whose time has come). It's about genesis. An idea, or belief, or practice or whatever, a cultural trait, comes into existence (memetogenesis if you will) and begins to propagate within the culture. The question is, how does it go from nascent idea to full blown cultural phenomenon; like, say, hockey, Britney Spears, bellbottoms, overthrowing Ghadafi, Satyagraha, Islam, recycling, baseball caps, the mile high club, heavy metal, the list goes on. The point being that it has to reach the tipping point. Once it goes over, poof, paradigm shift.

Every society has its dominant hegemonic view, but it can only have one. So yes, not only can there be hundreds, but there always are hundreds (hundreds being a surrogate for a whole fuckwhack) but this process is how the dominant one becomes the dominant one.

I've never heard of the SCNARC before, but their data seems to show that only 10% of the population has to hold "an unshakable belief". If find it shocking, in a counter-intuitive way, that the number is so low, but data is data. Gladwell talks about the 80/20 rule, that 80% of the work is done by 20% of the population and that the 20% have “a particular and rare set of social gifts” and that their role in change is crucial.

Here's a really clear example of the tipping point in action.

ON EDIT: I wanted to correct myself. It's not just about brand new ideas. It can also be about suppressed cultural traits. Like say, flat earth theory. If enough people believed it, it could see resurgence. We’ve been watching something similar in pop culture for the last 10-15 years; the idea that everything that is old is new. There’s been swing revivals, disco revivals, 80s skinny tie revivals. It’s all the same process.

Peace and Love and Empathy,

Matt

Hahaha thank you Smile

And thanks for the response. Makes a whole lot more sense to me now. Although in terms of it working for religion I feel like most people are too set in their views to have one group rapidly rise so quickly, but we'll see what happens.

James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world"

"Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist." C.S. Lewis
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04-01-2012, 08:35 PM
RE: The tipping point for new ideas
The problems I see is this report talking about opinions. Like the Red Sox chances for a pennant. Christianity is pattern of invested identity; it's a checkerboard over the void, and fifteen squares look completely empty - they ain't gonna step there - they're gonna cycle concept. They're gonna go halting state... until they get back in the huddle.

And atheism in general has all kinds of inappropriate attitudes in terms of strategy. The worst is this thinking - we're better than them - cause it is most definitely false. Morality is absolute to the identity. I hate to say it - but think like "kill them" - as horrible as it sounds, that's the moral choice. Think in terms of absolutes. Not their families, circles, earning potential - but the herd animal who is a danger to the pack - and, I'm telling you, your morality will respond. Don't think of "kill" as "put in the ground" think of "kill" as a series of graphical silhouettes on a computer screen - select one, delete it, think no more on it.

But I'm absolutely convinced, it ain't the word, it's more like the genetic paradigm from the primordial forest. That which is "killed," ends. Like on a forum? This Egor cat? Gets you would - delete 'im - walk away. Come back to it in a coupla days. You'll see. I mean, man, have I agonized over this concept - promoting "killing" - but what you are "killing" is the unit's link to the collective - writing that fool outta the book of life - besides, it is tao. Balance all that burning we do in their minds... that's much - much worse - and it hurts them.

Tolerance, misapplied; becomes licence. The identity/atheist answers to self, but the identity/Christian answers to simulation; they have no ethical imperative to restrain their morality - what ever extreme action the individual initiates, it's will of god. Now take Mike Lee - religiousantagonist - who gets atheists on his youtube page up in arms for his antics. He has an ethical imperative to question his morality.

To think of tolerance; first think of balance, and how can balance be applied? KC ain't gonna cause no shit; on that standard, Egor gets licence. To try them all for their worst crimes is to force the mild to confront the Christian identity of the fanatics - what kind of simulation do you think they will see?

On the plus side, however; information age. There ain't no hidden corners, no deep past, no musty library to filter for reference; it's all right here. And people will say anything - like Jesus never was - that is unquestioned in the herds.

Disassociation and trend. The apathetic crowd, becoming known. The comfy with Jesus group; who think about a coupla times a year in vague terms, who become self-moral. The Advertising Cascade, bombardment on all fronts; buy-me-buy-me-buy-me... all this self and stuff produces a self, ain't gonna wanna think about poor happy hippie Jesus.

Then the least. This one. All eyes on the horizon waiting for Gandalf on the white charger; while from the slums, this Gollum. Man of Lawlessness. Because everybody knows man's sinful, self-serving nature; never in a million years could they foretell that one who has nothing would deny the power of a god....

You know, cause science rox, duh. Wink

(Not I, but the "meme of I;" a trend of sense. If it is the law of the fractal; "meme of I" likely to start popping up like mushrooms in the grass - and they will know the prototype - the choice. Everything done, is known. Wink )

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