The treatment of Gay people
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14-01-2013, 12:52 AM
RE: The treatment of Gay people
(08-01-2013 07:36 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  I've got to ask, what do you think morality is defined as?

Because you seem to think that no matter how much suffering a countries government is causing to it's people, that we should just stay out of their way.
Would you feel the same about a country that was persecuting and stoning heterosexuals? Or does that hit home too much?


We wouldn't have to react to a country that was actively killing heterosexuals. Unless that country is really good at cloning and can get around the whole copy of a copy thing and the lifespan of a cell thing, that country would cease to exist in one generation.
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15-01-2013, 08:10 AM
RE: The treatment of Gay people
You can't get an ought from an is, so they say. Value statements are necessarily axiomatic at some level. What alternative value statements would you choose? None at all perhaps? In that case there is no morality.

Give me your argument in the form of a published paper, and then we can start to talk.
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18-01-2013, 04:10 PM
RE: The treatment of Gay people
(14-01-2013 12:52 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  We wouldn't have to react to a country that was actively killing heterosexuals. Unless that country is really good at cloning and can get around the whole copy of a copy thing and the lifespan of a cell thing, that country would cease to exist in one generation.
You are aware that homosexuals can reproduce, right?

In response to other posts, "minimizing suffering" is not at all the same thing as "outlawing/getting rid of all suffering."
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19-01-2013, 04:18 PM
RE: The treatment of Gay people
(13-01-2013 08:12 PM)namiloveyou Wrote:  
(12-01-2013 12:13 PM)Chas Wrote:  You are such a silly troll.
I'm being honest, who says we need to end suffering?

Can you cite why?
If we loosely define 'suffering' as pain, trauma, angst,hopelessness, misery etc and relate this state to ourselves, than it seems patently obvious that it needs curtailing.
The fact, given various attitudes, including greed, that this may be very difficult, especially so in many cases, is no sound reason to say that suffering should be tolerated!
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23-01-2013, 01:37 PM
RE: The treatment of Gay people
(08-01-2013 07:41 PM)HailMeNow Wrote:  
(08-01-2013 07:36 PM)Aspchizo Wrote:  I've got to ask, what do you think morality is defined as?

Because you seem to think that no matter how much suffering a countries government is causing to it's people, that we should just stay out of their way.
Would you feel the same about a country that was persecuting and stoning heterosexuals? Or does that hit home too much?
Anything goes, the same for heterosexuals although that would never happen because it's how humans are here today. But whatever the government says goes and we should obide by the rules
You just invoked "Legal Positivism". According to that worldview Adolf Hitler was a superhero and Oscar Schindler was a scumbag. I assume you are atheist/agnostic so reasoning with you may work. You must acknowledge that you are allowing the government to occupy the place that God occupies in the religious mind, namely, being the slavemaster.

If governments want to oppress a minority such as non-heterosexual people, then it is a malevolent government. You can easily get behind it and condemn their crimes. And please notice the word I just used. "Crime". Governments can also commit crimes. When you think about it, most of the aberrations perpetrated by humans unto others where planned, executed and artificially "legitimized" by governments.

Governments are simply groups of people. People are not perfect on their own and getting together in an institution called "The State" doesn't magically summon a moral perfection chip onto their brains.

Antitheist - Tooth Fairy Agnostic - Rationalist - Humanist - Individualist - Libertarian Minarchist

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