The tree of knowledge of good and evil
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22-04-2015, 07:13 AM
RE: The tree of knowledge of good and evil
(22-04-2015 12:19 AM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(21-04-2015 10:14 PM)Augustine17 Wrote:  Zzz no education is not evil but teaching methods can have a devastating effect on the brain. The problem is that the left hemisphere is overly stimulated and not the right. The goal should be to try to do both equally or at least slightly do the right more.

The reason I posted all of that at once is because if I simply stated education system can screw a kids mind potentially I could get a 'bs back it up with proof' or 'what a load of nonsense' by some person who is too lazy to actually study the effects of education on brain hemisphere and before the development of the frontal lobe.
I suppose when you have a vested interest in indoctrinating children with a bunch of nonsense stories proper logical and reasoned education can have a "devastating effect on the brain". I dunno..... maybe put less of an emphasis on the institutionalized rape of childrens minds??

As for your ...idea.....riiiiiight.....which is why countries that rank among the highest in education standards also rank among the lowest in violent crimes suck as murder, rape, assault, and so on. Where as countries with low levels of education have increased poverty, crime, unhappiness, and dozens of other societal problems. In fact the spread of information and the easy access to structured education is one of many reasons the world as a whole is getting BETTER every day. But oh now we should totally go back to a time when we burned women to death over a lack of rain. Ya those were the good days.

Hey lets look at prisons in America, the most obnoxiously Christian country in the world! Oh look they are filled with tons of poorly educated Christians. Looks like your little theory is bullshit when applied to the real world, both in the effects of high education and in areas of low education. In America the vast majority of violent crimes are committed by poor, undereducated Christians.

Oh also your book is a bunch of primitive bullshit, most of it being a work of obvious fiction, and your god happens to both not exist AND think you should go fuck yourself with a Blender set to "oh dear, this is not good.". He's special like that.

Now gtfo and maybe get an education 'cause you clearly lack one you ass backwards primitive. At the very least get an education on history so you have some idea why what you type is so dumb cunt stupid.

Shoo, get ye gone.

There are many accounts of suicide due to academics in places with 'higher education' not really against education but against extreme left brain stimulation, anyways the reportedly most advanced countries academic have high teen suicide rates look at for example South Korea and Japan. Also Hon Kong is not so far off compared to U.S.A. Don't forget about Singapore reportedly 22% of kids there want to commit suicide in a place that is viewed as 'advanced and has low crime rate'. The over stimulation is deadly and that is fact. The fact is, that the left hemisphere being dominant causes neurosis and way over the top exuberance as well as aggression. Perhaps you're in that category. Anyways, concerning the 'institutionalized rape of the mind' I am against that but eh people do bad stuff under guises bad stuff was done in the name of science, in the name of love, in the name of peace and in the name of prosperity and also religion. Please, political control is a more prominent cause of war.

Insulted someone you expressed to be a 'primitive ass-backwards monkey' y if we all insult people we think are less intelligent then we would be run by a bunch of elitist arrogant neurotics who are unable to expand their perspective due to their lack of creativity, which we are.

''Dr. Seo Yu-hyeon, a brain expert from Seoul National University Faculty of Medicines criticized South Korea's private educations among toddlers due to the forceful nature of these educational pursuits that could deteriorate creativity and block any healthy brain development''

Please do not lump me in with anyone claiming to be 'Christian' people are individual even the constitution was alright but then look now there is civil forfeiture and other stuff. People fight because of their perceptions of religion and go to war but they also do that for freaking money, green paper which is done more oft and also political power. Zzz
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22-04-2015, 07:21 AM
RE: The tree of knowledge of good and evil
(22-04-2015 06:53 AM)Augustine17 Wrote:  The entire book is not meant to be taken literally... there are many figures of speech.

The real question is how can you tell what's literal and what is figurative. There doesn't seem to be much agreement on that between the various denominations.

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22-04-2015, 08:00 AM (This post was last modified: 22-04-2015 10:43 AM by TheBeardedDude.)
RE: The tree of knowledge of good and evil
(21-04-2015 09:17 PM)Augustine17 Wrote:  If you look at when a child is young, at the age of 4, they take an education system which stimulates the left hemisphere of the brain and discriminates against the right hemisphere. Left brain hemisphere over-activity is associated with a hypothalamus/amygdala that is hyper active, and abnormal beta wave activity, which all are common with psychopaths and sociopaths.

''What it comes down to is that modern society discriminates against the right hemisphere'' - Roger Wolcott Sperry

''If you reflect back upon our educational training, we have been traditionally taught to master the 3 R's: reading, writing and arithmetic, the strength and domain of the left brain.''

So, when a child has that education system, the paradoxical/creative/para-psychological/intuitive aspect of their character, which is associated with the right hemisphere of the brain is veiled. Dyslexics in contrast to such people, are seen as foolish or dumb, but Einstein, Nikola Tesla and others who were dyslexic were genius level in contrast to those people.

So this biased education system causes an induced neurosis, because the linear aspect becomes hyperactive and used for logic, so the holistic aspect is veiled. Once that happens, there is a large scale of neurosis.

''That human nature and society can have conflicting demands, and hence that a whole society can be sick, was made very explicitly by Freud.''

Neurosis is the intolerance of ambiguity - Sigmund Freud.

^ The right hemisphere of the brain is associated with paradox and creativity - ambiguity. Once that gets veiled on a large scale there are a lot of people who do not understand paradoxical works like the ancient texts in religion(s) and the intent of the constitution etc. Then there are people who use those for wars and that is quite deadly. Neurotics perhaps should not trust their instinct.

The effects of this large scale neurosis are enhanced craving, aggression and physical desire due to the hyperactive hypothalamus activity. Cravings which lead to compulsive masturbation, sadism/masochism, sociopathic tendencies, God complexes, continual desire for physical objects, backwards logic, linear thinking, etc.

After puberty, the effects of such discrimination start to manifest, though they do prior also. And what do you get? People with intense baser desire(s) and they have intense depression when those desires are not satisfied. Then you get an epidemic of kids who commit suicide due to that. The sense of time also becomes extremely powerful, and emotional expression extremely high(exuberance).

The intuitive aspect is veiled because of that, and wisdom is replaced by knowledge, thus making the info useless.

“Money can buy you knowledge, but not the wisdom to use it wisely.”

If you are not careful to observe all the words of this law which are written in this book, to fear this honored and awesome name, the LORD your God, - Deuteronomy 28:59

In the morning you shall say, 'Would that it were evening!' And at evening you shall say, 'Would that it were morning!' because of the dread of your heart which you dread, and for the sight of your eyes which you will see - Deuteronomy 28:67

^ That latter verse is relative to the strong sense of time. The way to reverse the effects of the powerful neurosis, would be to submit, fear not, to overcome death. Then the cerebral powerhouse will be unveiled.

He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. - Hebrews 11:19

^ Isaac submitted to death and did not fear, and then his cerebral powerhouse was unveiled more than prior. He overcame the fear of death, the most powerful signal against someone with neurosis. Also see what the word of the Lord expressed to Abram.

After things these came the word of the LORD, unto Abram in a vision saying not fear, Abram. I [am] your shield to you reward great exceedingly. - Genesis 15:1

After things these came the word of the LORD, unto Abram in a vision saying not fear(the remedy for the neurosis), Abram. I [am] your shield to you reward great exceedingly(great is used to describe exceedingly, because exceedingly means to great extent, and great means to great extent. They are used to express the IMMEASURABLE reward, the riches of wisdom and salvation from psychological death). - Genesis 15:1

The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! 5"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." - Genesis 3:4-5

^This is the illusion that, KNOWLEDGE will make someone smart. Knowledge does not. Because they believed that knowledge would make them smarter, they died mentally/spiritually.

This goes back to - ''but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." - Genesis 2:17

^ Refers to mental/spiritual psychosis. The fruit looked good and appealing and useful for attaining wisdom, but did the opposite of give wisdom.

Furthermore: Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise. - 1 Corinthians 3:18.

^ Side effects of having the paradox mentality veiled would be having a know it all approach and assuming all info to be at face value. So, thinking in reverse when neurotic would help unveil the subconscious.

''The dangers of a dominant left brain occur when the energy of the left hemisphere is too out of balance, causing chronic left brain dominance. In extreme cases, people who have this chronic psychological disorder are psychopaths and they are very obsessed with power and control.'' <--- People on the left are on the path of sociopath, psychopathy etc. due to the control-freak nature when such a person is in that state of neurosis.

The ancients proposed a cure to this sick condition throughout history and that is the gospel to avoid this sick condition and return to being mentally sound. By doing so to reconcile to God and have the image of God that man were made in be revealed again and not hidden.

Made a doc concerning this, not sure if I am allowed to post.

Thank you.

1) taking quotes by random people doesn't actually provide any evidence to support any of your assertions.

2) the notion that our education system is or ever has been perfect, is not exactly a stretch of the imagination.

3)"The effects of this large scale neurosis are enhanced craving, aggression and physical desire due to the hyperactive hypothalamus activity. Cravings which lead to compulsive masturbation, sadism/masochism, sociopathic tendencies, God complexes, continual desire for physical objects, backwards logic, linear thinking, etc.

After puberty, the effects of such discrimination start to manifest, though they do prior also. And what do you get? People with intense baser desire(s) and they have intense depression when those desires are not satisfied. Then you get an epidemic of kids who commit suicide due to that. The sense of time also becomes extremely powerful, and emotional expression extremely high(exuberance). "


^This completely ignores a number of other issues. Environmental and societal effects to name a few. How does one directly correlate these types of "issues" (you've judged these as issues but my guess is that your idea of "backwards logic" and mine differ. And "linear thinking" isn't a bad thing, it can be a very good thing at times. And things like "continual desire for physical objects" is a trait that all animals seem to have, even if that physical object is only food but other animals will compete over space and inanimate objects for mating rights).

4) "This is the illusion that, KNOWLEDGE will make someone smart. Knowledge does not. Because they believed that knowledge would make them smarter, they died mentally/spiritually."
No intelligent person would ever tell you that education and intelligence are the same thing, but they do tend to correlate. Why is it then that when it comes to most of the intelligent individuals (like the National Academy of Sciences), they are overwhelming atheists/non-religious?




This gets really ranty really quick, but it seems to be more of the notion that the bible has passages that are metaphorical and other passages that are literal. Which is complete hogwash.

Either the book is the perfect word such that people can come to better know your god from reading it, or it requires some sort of special intelligence in order to understand it, thereby eliminating a large segment of the population from ever being able to understand it.

I always find it curious that the things that can no longer be taken literally, were of course always meant to be metaphorical. Talk about confirmation bias. Drinking Beverage

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23-04-2015, 10:56 AM
RE: The tree of knowledge of good and evil
Having linear thinking is of some value, but when that is higher than holistic thinking the mind is stripped of potential. Furthermore, there were even parables in the Bible and other religious texts, but with both they had facts that were actually true. Take for example:

Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed - Matthew 13:3

The wind goes toward the south, And turns around to the north; The wind whirls about continually, And comes again on its circuit. - Ecclesiastes 1:6

The wind is in a constant spiral, called the Fibonacci spiral or Golden spiral, as are all forms of matter. Phi is even in subatomic particles. The wind whirls continually.

Also there are cases that are figurative AND literal. Both at the same time.

If the axe is dull and he does not sharpen its edge, then he must exert more strength. Wisdom has the advantage of giving success - Ecclesiastes 10:10

That is true, when an axe is dull then more force is required to cut compared to before. But like a dull axe, when one does not have optimal resources to succeed in a situation, then that lack of optimal resources in gaining success can be replaced by resourcefulness.

A rich man may be born rich and have many dollars but have poor discerning. While someone who is poor can go from 'rags to riches' with strategy.

Furthermore, children of today do use imagination, however, the measure is not enough. Short term memory is emphasized and not long term memory. Before the frontal lobe is developed, they are taught excessively to use the hemisphere of the brain associated with being linear in the 3 R's but there is not enough right hemisphere influence(which should be slightly higher or equal imo than left) which could be done in the form of: imagery, developing photographic memory, teaching math through imagery+numerical value and not solely arithmetic, pretty much teaching linearly and non-linearly. Like a child gets taught 1 then 2 then 3 then 4 instead of 1 is this much 2 is this much etc. The former is not wrong but there should be a balance to use both parts of their mind to their potential, though I do believe having the right dominant is better. People like Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung and Einstein had that creativity aspect unveiled. People perhaps call them dyslexic, but dyslexics are just more inclined to learn differently.
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23-04-2015, 11:58 AM
RE: The tree of knowledge of good and evil
(23-04-2015 10:56 AM)Augustine17 Wrote:  Having linear thinking is of some value, but when that is higher than holistic thinking the mind is stripped of potential. Furthermore, there were even parables in the Bible and other religious texts, but with both they had facts that were actually true. Take for example:

Then he told them many things in parables, saying: “A farmer went out to sow his seed - Matthew 13:3

The wind goes toward the south, And turns around to the north; The wind whirls about continually, And comes again on its circuit. - Ecclesiastes 1:6

The wind is in a constant spiral, called the Fibonacci spiral or Golden spiral, as are all forms of matter. Phi is even in subatomic particles. The wind whirls continually.

Also there are cases that are figurative AND literal. Both at the same time.

If the axe is dull and he does not sharpen its edge, then he must exert more strength. Wisdom has the advantage of giving success - Ecclesiastes 10:10

That is true, when an axe is dull then more force is required to cut compared to before. But like a dull axe, when one does not have optimal resources to succeed in a situation, then that lack of optimal resources in gaining success can be replaced by resourcefulness.

A rich man may be born rich and have many dollars but have poor discerning. While someone who is poor can go from 'rags to riches' with strategy.

Furthermore, children of today do use imagination, however, the measure is not enough. Short term memory is emphasized and not long term memory. Before the frontal lobe is developed, they are taught excessively to use the hemisphere of the brain associated with being linear in the 3 R's but there is not enough right hemisphere influence(which should be slightly higher or equal imo than left) which could be done in the form of: imagery, developing photographic memory, teaching math through imagery+numerical value and not solely arithmetic, pretty much teaching linearly and non-linearly. Like a child gets taught 1 then 2 then 3 then 4 instead of 1 is this much 2 is this much etc. The former is not wrong but there should be a balance to use both parts of their mind to their potential, though I do believe having the right dominant is better. People like Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung and Einstein had that creativity aspect unveiled. People perhaps call them dyslexic, but dyslexics are just more inclined to learn differently.

Except the whole left brain/right brain thing is a myth.
Left Brain vs. Right: It's a Myth, Research Finds
Why the Left-Brain Right-Brain Myth Will Probably Never Die

The rest of your post was largely incoherent.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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23-04-2015, 12:00 PM
RE: The tree of knowledge of good and evil
What are your basis's for overwhelming proclamations on these systems? Are they from your educational experience, in what time was that? what culture was that? You are also using falsely simplified ways of thinking that has been proven false for years but were initially formulated based on seizure studies of people. There are aspects left/right hemispheres control but the brained side idea isn't valid the way people speak about it.

There are constant and been constant shifts in these movements pushed through educational systems and in programs about how to educate people at certain ages or with disabilities being made. What any of these biblical references about things have anything to do with it is confusing outside of it being a sign of delusion tough.

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23-04-2015, 07:22 PM
RE: The tree of knowledge of good and evil
Didn't propose people use 1 part of the brain and not the other here. But people for certain tasks use 1 more than the other. People use both, but are oriented to use 1 more than the other. Dyslexics who use the right hemisphere more are not as easy to teach in terms of using certain traditional education method(s). People use both hemispheres but in certain tasks use 1 more than the other and Neurosis/Aphasia is when someone becomes 100% against one or the other. If someone uses too much of one and denies completely the other there will be an issue because of the lack of use of both hemispheres of the brain. Again, the goal is 50/50 harmony in terms of calculation, but in that scenario the right would be slightly stronger. Left is superior for linear and Right is superior for holistic, when both are being used in equal measure the calculation becomes better and musicians reportedly use both hemispheres more actively than other people. When someone uses one too much the other is neglected and that can result in aphasia or neurosis. Musicians use left for reading the symbols and the right for better timing in the use of the hemisphere(s).

Think of it like handedness right handed people can still use their left hand for stuff but not as well. Left handed people can still use their right hand but not as well. Ambidextrous people are closer to the middle but there is one hand they can use better even if the difference is barely noticeable so don't think the term ambidextrous is really accurate all the time.
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23-04-2015, 07:37 PM (This post was last modified: 24-04-2015 03:48 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: The tree of knowledge of good and evil
(21-04-2015 09:17 PM)Augustine17 Wrote:  If you look at when a child is young, at the age of 4, they take an education system which stimulates the left hemisphere of the brain and discriminates against the right hemisphere. Left brain hemisphere over-activity is associated with a hypothalamus/amygdala that is hyper active, and abnormal beta wave activity, which all are common with psychopaths and sociopaths.

''What it comes down to is that modern society discriminates against the right hemisphere'' - Roger Wolcott Sperry

''If you reflect back upon our educational training, we have been traditionally taught to master the 3 R's: reading, writing and arithmetic, the strength and domain of the left brain.''

So, when a child has that education system, the paradoxical/creative/para-psychological/intuitive aspect of their character, which is associated with the right hemisphere of the brain is veiled. Dyslexics in contrast to such people, are seen as foolish or dumb, but Einstein, Nikola Tesla and others who were dyslexic were genius level in contrast to those people.

So this biased education system causes an induced neurosis, because the linear aspect becomes hyperactive and used for logic, so the holistic aspect is veiled. Once that happens, there is a large scale of neurosis.

''That human nature and society can have conflicting demands, and hence that a whole society can be sick, was made very explicitly by Freud.''

Neurosis is the intolerance of ambiguity - Sigmund Freud.

^ The right hemisphere of the brain is associated with paradox and creativity - ambiguity. Once that gets veiled on a large scale there are a lot of people who do not understand paradoxical works like the ancient texts in religion(s) and the intent of the constitution etc. Then there are people who use those for wars and that is quite deadly. Neurotics perhaps should not trust their instinct.

The effects of this large scale neurosis are enhanced craving, aggression and physical desire due to the hyperactive hypothalamus activity. Cravings which lead to compulsive masturbation, sadism/masochism, sociopathic tendencies, God complexes, continual desire for physical objects, backwards logic, linear thinking, etc.

After puberty, the effects of such discrimination start to manifest, though they do prior also. And what do you get? People with intense baser desire(s) and they have intense depression when those desires are not satisfied. Then you get an epidemic of kids who commit suicide due to that. The sense of time also becomes extremely powerful, and emotional expression extremely high(exuberance).

The intuitive aspect is veiled because of that, and wisdom is replaced by knowledge, thus making the info useless.

“Money can buy you knowledge, but not the wisdom to use it wisely.”

If you are not careful to observe all the words of this law which are written in this book, to fear this honored and awesome name, the LORD your God, - Deuteronomy 28:59

In the morning you shall say, 'Would that it were evening!' And at evening you shall say, 'Would that it were morning!' because of the dread of your heart which you dread, and for the sight of your eyes which you will see - Deuteronomy 28:67

^ That latter verse is relative to the strong sense of time. The way to reverse the effects of the powerful neurosis, would be to submit, fear not, to overcome death. Then the cerebral powerhouse will be unveiled.

He considered that God was able even to raise him from the dead, from which, figuratively speaking, he did receive him back. - Hebrews 11:19

^ Isaac submitted to death and did not fear, and then his cerebral powerhouse was unveiled more than prior. He overcame the fear of death, the most powerful signal against someone with neurosis. Also see what the word of the Lord expressed to Abram.

After things these came the word of the LORD, unto Abram in a vision saying not fear, Abram. I [am] your shield to you reward great exceedingly. - Genesis 15:1

After things these came the word of the LORD, unto Abram in a vision saying not fear(the remedy for the neurosis), Abram. I [am] your shield to you reward great exceedingly(great is used to describe exceedingly, because exceedingly means to great extent, and great means to great extent. They are used to express the IMMEASURABLE reward, the riches of wisdom and salvation from psychological death). - Genesis 15:1

The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die! 5"For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." - Genesis 3:4-5

^This is the illusion that, KNOWLEDGE will make someone smart. Knowledge does not. Because they believed that knowledge would make them smarter, they died mentally/spiritually.

This goes back to - ''but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die." - Genesis 2:17

^ Refers to mental/spiritual psychosis. The fruit looked good and appealing and useful for attaining wisdom, but did the opposite of give wisdom.

Furthermore: Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise. - 1 Corinthians 3:18.

^ Side effects of having the paradox mentality veiled would be having a know it all approach and assuming all info to be at face value. So, thinking in reverse when neurotic would help unveil the subconscious.

''The dangers of a dominant left brain occur when the energy of the left hemisphere is too out of balance, causing chronic left brain dominance. In extreme cases, people who have this chronic psychological disorder are psychopaths and they are very obsessed with power and control.'' <--- People on the left are on the path of sociopath, psychopathy etc. due to the control-freak nature when such a person is in that state of neurosis.

The ancients proposed a cure to this sick condition throughout history and that is the gospel to avoid this sick condition and return to being mentally sound. By doing so to reconcile to God and have the image of God that man were made in be revealed again and not hidden.

Made a doc concerning this, not sure if I am allowed to post.

Thank you.

No. Actually it has nothing at all to do, what you think it has. The garden myth (as many other themes in Genesis were), was taken from Babylonian mythology, and the prime concern of those myths was "chaos and order". Read the Babylonian "Marduk Slays Tiamat the Dragon of Chaos", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiamat, then read Martin Buber's (famous Jewish Philosopher and Talmud scholar) "Good and Evil". Start with Part II. The reason it's call the Tree of the Knowledge of Good AND Evil, is that the myth was about attempting to "encompass" (ie "know* AT THE SAME TIME) BOTH, "ggod and evil", instead of making a (moral) "decision". Not making a "choice" is allowing chaos to reign. That's what the Garden of Eden myth is about. It has nothing to do with neuroses. What you're doing is called "presentism". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_...nalysis%29
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...#pid160188

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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23-04-2015, 07:45 PM
RE: The tree of knowledge of good and evil
(22-04-2015 06:53 AM)Augustine17 Wrote:  
(21-04-2015 11:49 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Could almost wish for an actual YHWH to send these shitbirds downstairs to be perpetually violated by a grinning adversary with a full-sized Lebanese cedar - when god says "tree" he means "tree," motherfucker.
The entire book is not meant to be taken literally... there are many figures of speech.

It's your hell and your ass, buddy.

(23-04-2015 11:58 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(23-04-2015 10:56 AM)Augustine17 Wrote:  The former is not wrong but there should be a balance to use both parts of their mind to their potential, though I do believe having the right dominant is better.

Except the whole left brain/right brain thing is a myth.
Left Brain vs. Right: It's a Myth, Research Finds
Why the Left-Brain Right-Brain Myth Will Probably Never Die

The rest of your post was largely incoherent.

I was too lazy to look it up... wait a minute, I remembered! Big Grin




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23-04-2015, 09:36 PM
RE: The tree of knowledge of good and evil
The mental gymnastics some go through to 'prove' that God is real...is exhausting.

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