The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-04-2016, 06:28 PM
RE: The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
(07-04-2016 06:07 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(07-04-2016 05:47 PM)Atheism=truth Wrote:  Thank you for replying unfogged. I agree with your point of view and I share the same belief. Religion was valued and accepted by the masses in ancient civilizations only because our ancestors lacked any understanding of cosmology - civilization and religion were created simultaneously and I doubt anyone could argue that this was coincidence (at least not those of us who use logic and rationality to determine what we believe is fact versus fiction).

I'm not sure I agree that they came about simultaneously but it'd depend on what is included in each category. I do agree that it was the result of the first attempts to explain why things are the way they are.

Quote: I am new to this site so I am attempting to avoid coming across as narcissistic or superior. I would be grateful for any guidance on how much (if any) of my core beliefs I should filter to avoid controversy.

Don't worry, if you do come across that way you'll hear about it quickly! Big Grin

There are some very well educated people here as well as some very intelligent people here (and quite a bit of overlap between those categories) but one constant is that people here tend to be very blunt about things. As long as you don't present opinions as fact and have reasons (and preferably evidence) to back up your beliefs you'll be fine.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience! I would hate to find out the hard way that I have offended someone but I joined this site for the same reason I suspect many others have as well - to expand my knowledge with an open mind that is guided by reason and logic and hopefully learn to truly connect with like-minded individuals (such as yourself) and find my voice. Smile

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” --Douglas Adams
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2016, 06:40 PM
RE: The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
I fail to understand how the absence of something (atheism) is "truth".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Bucky Ball's post
07-04-2016, 06:45 PM
RE: The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
(07-04-2016 09:07 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(06-04-2016 10:29 PM)Atheism=truth Wrote:  I have been reading a variety of threads on this site and I don't believe that my way of thinking is in any way revolutionary.

Dude, seriously. I've read everyone from Herodotus to Pliny (both elder and younger), Marcus Aurelius, Sartre, Nietzsche, Descartes and so many more including Spinoza and Goethe.

You really think you have more to offer?

Go away child.

I appreciate your honesty but I must disagree with you. I am not a child (but I think you already knew that). I obviously have no more to add than Nietzche or Descartes but I am highly educated and, to honor your honesty with my own, I think it is rather short-sighted of you to dismiss me so quickly when I have posted just one thread. I do not shy away from constructive criticism but your comment was not constructive, just elitist. You are entitled to your opinion but it seems beneath such a well-read scholar to call someone they don't know a 'child'.


Attached File(s) Thumbnail(s)
   

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” --Douglas Adams
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2016, 07:29 PM
RE: The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
(07-04-2016 06:23 PM)Atheism=truth Wrote:  
(07-04-2016 08:57 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  The only thing I take issue with in his quote is his use of the word imagination. It is not our imagination that needs to conform to reality but our concepts. Imagination plays and important role in sort of mentally trying things out but knowledge is knowledge of reality. We identify and integrate facts by means of concepts. Concepts are the basic building blocks of knowledge, not imagination nor feelings nor beliefs. It is our concepts which must conform to reality and not the other way around. He is basically affirming that existence has primacy and that I agree with 100%. By empirical knowledge Krauss means if we want to know about things we need to look outward at the world, not inward to the contents of our mind.

Faith is the epistemological corollary of the primacy of consciousness metaphysics. It takes a looking inward approach to knowledge. Reality conforms to our wishes and desires. It is based on an entirely opposite metaphysics than reason. The two are diametrically opposed, no matter what theists would like us to believe.

Reason destroys religion. That's why the writers of the Bible don't even talk about it and instead push faith. Science is the application of reason to study of the universe. Faith is retreat into the fantasy world of the imagination. While I don't think scientists are out to destroy religion, the more science demonstrates the power of reason the less and less sway religion will have.

truescotsman: Thank you for your poignant response. I agree with your argument that as human beings become educated and enlightened, religion will not only become transparently antiquated but I believe that the nature of the scientific method (to doubt everything by creating a hypothesis we actively seek to disprove) will eventually eradicate the need for religion. The vary nature of religion is the antithesis of science. Since I'm still new to articulating my views using my own words I will quote the great Jerry A. Coyne:
Quote:Science is an elaborate construction of rules and practices designed to keep you from fooling yourself, to keep you from believing what you really want to believe. The worst thing that can happen to a scientist is to try to show what’s true is what you want to be true. That’s a real sin. Of course in religion, that’s completely the opposite. That’s the purpose of religion.

It's something that we Humans need to be constantly vigilant about, not confusing our desires and wishes with reality. Thinking is not automatic and that's why we need a framework of principles to guide us and keep us from blurring that line.

I think that religion served a very important function in the sense that it gave people a comprehensive view of the world. It's a false view and and irrational view but it filled an important need of Human life. No one can live without some kind of philosophy and religion provided that. It was and is a pre-scientific and pre-rational worldview. I think it does need to fade away now but it must be replaced with a rational, reality based philosophy. I think the only proper way to bring this about is by advocating for reason. The ages of enlightenment and reason almost succeeded. Maybe during the next cycle it will happen although I think we are headed for a new dark ages right now. But maybe after that reason will totally replace faith. We can only hope.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes true scotsman's post
07-04-2016, 08:38 PM
RE: The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
(07-04-2016 06:40 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I fail to understand how the absence of something (atheism) is "truth".

Are you implying that "truth" is tangible and stagnant? If so, I vehemently disagree. Atheism is not synonymous with agnosticism (those who are unconvinced either way whether there is a supreme being or not). I am not arguing that atheism is truth. I am arguing that when we stop doubting everything we were told was 'true' (that religion equals morality and faith is above rationality) then we are no better off than our ancestors who worshiped the gods of rain, sun, etc nor are we any different than the ignorance that led to human sacrifices and other atrocities. I choose to believe that whether or not there is a supreme being is irrelevant. The only truth I accept is that I, just like you and every other living thing, will die. What happens to us after we die is impossible to prove and frankly unimportant. A negative connotation has been assigned to the word atheist but if history tells us anything, we should all know that the accepted vernacular has been wrong before and will be wrong again.


Attached File(s) Thumbnail(s)
   

“Don't believe anything you read on the net. Except this. Well, including this, I suppose.” --Douglas Adams
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2016, 08:48 PM
RE: The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
(07-04-2016 08:38 PM)Atheism=truth Wrote:  Are you implying that "truth" is tangible and stagnant?

No.

(07-04-2016 08:38 PM)Atheism=truth Wrote:  If so, I vehemently disagree. Atheism is not synonymous with agnosticism (those who are unconvinced either way whether there is a supreme being or not).

No one said anything about agnosticism.

(07-04-2016 08:38 PM)Atheism=truth Wrote:  I am not arguing that atheism is truth.

Your name. Facepalm

(07-04-2016 08:38 PM)Atheism=truth Wrote:  I am arguing that when we stop doubting everything we were told was 'true' (that religion equals morality and faith is above rationality) then we are no better off than our ancestors who worshiped the gods of rain, sun, etc nor are we any different than the ignorance that led to human sacrifices and other atrocities.

WTAF ? read what you just said. You said "When we stop doubting ..... then we are no better off ....
Facepalm

(07-04-2016 08:38 PM)Atheism=truth Wrote:  I choose to believe that whether or not there is a supreme being is irrelevant. The only truth I accept is that I, just like you and every other living thing, will die. What happens to us after we die is impossible to prove and frankly unimportant. A negative connotation has been assigned to the word atheist but if history tells us anything, we should all know that the accepted vernacular has been wrong before and will be wrong again.

Brilliant. No shit Sherlock.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-04-2016, 09:20 PM
RE: The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
(07-04-2016 08:48 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(07-04-2016 08:38 PM)Atheism=truth Wrote:  I am arguing that when we stop doubting everything we were told was 'true' (that religion equals morality and faith is above rationality) then we are no better off than our ancestors who worshiped the gods of rain, sun, etc nor are we any different than the ignorance that led to human sacrifices and other atrocities.

WTAF ? read what you just said. You said "When we stop doubting ..... then we are no better off ....
Facepalm

Hold on Bucky, I actually read what he wrote as saying that when we stop being skeptical, we become susceptible to the danger of faith based thinking. I'm not seeing what you seem to be in what he wrote.

Unless I'm missing something? I haven't read anything posted by A=t that I really disagree with. Consider

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like evenheathen's post
08-04-2016, 12:53 AM
RE: The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
Faith can cause injury.
Reason can prevent injury or help to minimize it.

Anything designed to protect your child or you was put into place because people got hurt and people wanted to prevent future injury.

Here is the evidence of people getting injured and now we use reason to help prevent future injury.

Faith doesn't do that.
Faith remains consistent in spite of injury.
"All you have to do is believe and god will protect you.
If you are injured, then this is gods will."

Ignoring the consequences of an action in favor of your own mental delusion can cause injury.

So yes, reason is much more useful than faith.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Rahn127's post
08-04-2016, 01:27 AM
RE: The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
If we're just going to post sappy pictures with quotes on them, I'm going to start linking to images of Lisa Frank folders; because that shit is trippy.

[Image: 980x.jpg]

Slap whatever fucking quote you want on that shit, and you'll still be trippin' balls.

[Image: E3WvRwZ.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like EvolutionKills's post
08-04-2016, 02:31 AM
RE: The voice of reason and/or the voice of faith
"Truth" is a human concept. That's all. An idea.

"Ideas are a dime a dozen".
Jack Kerouac.

PS. I was off my tree last night. Ignore my curt responses.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: