The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
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27-09-2013, 09:00 AM
 
RE: The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
(26-09-2013 03:51 PM)Escape Artist Wrote:  Hey, there. I'm an INFP. Not that you asked, but...

On the contrary, thanks for pointing it out. I'm a big fan of MBTI, I believe those four letters are the most concise way of describing oneself. Thumbsup

(26-09-2013 03:51 PM)Escape Artist Wrote:  About not being sure when you're right anymore. I feel you. It's something I'm dealing with now. Mapping out my own morality, my own definitions of right and wrong. I'm finding that there are lots of different "right" ways. The hard part is figuring out which is mine.

I suggest applying the best out of every one of those "right" ways to your life. This world is full of labels, political and religious ones, and I can't identify myself with any of them fully. I think they only compartmentalize people. For example, I'm libertarian on some issues, conservative on some, and socialistic* on others. If I adopted one of those labels, I'd have to conform to its position on other issues, which I wouldn't agree with.

* Depending on whether one considers welfare state as "socialistic." Wink

(26-09-2013 05:14 PM)Chopdoc Wrote:  I admire speed with which you found a secular group to interact with. A matter of days?! Wow! Bowing It took me years after leaving religious faith to even consider talking about it.

Well, I'm still "in the closet," to put it that way. Nobody knows of my unbelief. On this forum I'm (more or less) anonymous, so I can talk about it openly. And that means a lot to me at this moment.

(26-09-2013 05:14 PM)Chopdoc Wrote:  When I walked away from belief in god it was initially unsettling, to say the least--sort of like staring into a great abyss--but I knew I had no choice because of the cognitive disconnect I experienced as a thinking, rational person when considering the utter rubbish I had been taught.

I feel like this too. I stepped out of my "comfort zone" so to speak, which is unsettling, but at the same time I know that there's no turning back. What's been learned about Christianity, cannot be un-learned.
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27-09-2013, 09:43 AM
RE: The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
Comfort zones? Pfft! Who needs 'em anyway? If you're always comfortable you're probably also missing out on a lot.

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29-10-2013, 04:38 PM
RE: The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
I am newly deconverted myself, only counting myself a true athiest for the past 2 months or so (though I did some DEEP research and, for lack of a better term, "soul searching" for about 2 years prior to finally feeling comfortable enough to admit the truth that I do not have any valid reasons to believe in any god.) what is lost, often, especially by people fortunate enough not to have grown up being thoroughly indoctrinated, is the sense of loss. I grew up in a very Christian home, went to a Baptist school until the middle of 10th grade, church every Sunday, youth group every Friday, Acquire the Fire youth rallies... Through all of that, I was taught that God was my father, that Jesus was my source of unconditional love and acceptance - my best friend. To those of you NOT raised in fables and folk tales, imagine having a best friend your entire life. Talking to him every night and day. *knowing* beyond a shadow of a doubt that that person will be there through thick and thin, always loving you. Always supporting you. Now imagine, after 20 years of dedicating your entire being to this relationship, not losing that friend in some argument or terrible accident, but realizing that THAT PERSON NEVER EXISTED. it's quite a shock to your system. That has been the most difficult part for me... But I would rather accept those sometimes negative feelings, and escape the delusions of the lie that is Christianity. Especially as a woman. The Bible has no place for equality, social justice, morality, love, or tolerance, and, as such, I have no place for the bible. The God of the bible contradicts himself, is wrathful, and, by use of simple logic, cannot be all that he claims. Therefore, the God of the bible cannot exist. If I may make a suggestion, read Godless by Dan Barker. It is the one piece of reading that FINALLY helped me shed my last lingering doubts. Next on my reading list is Deconverted. If TTA podcasts are any indication, that will be a phenomenal read as well.
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30-10-2013, 01:11 AM
RE: The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
(29-10-2013 04:38 PM)SheilaMercon Wrote:  Through all of that, I was taught that God was my father, that Jesus was my source of unconditional love and acceptance - my best friend. To those of you NOT raised in fables and folk tales, imagine having a best friend your entire life. Talking to him every night and day. *knowing* beyond a shadow of a doubt that that person will be there through thick and thin, always loving you. Always supporting you.

But there is really no sense in which the Father, the Son or the Holy Ghost were present in your life. You have to inflict extreme violence on the concepts of fatherhood and friendship to arrive at the idea that you had a father and a friend in Jesus. It wasn't like the Moby video where you get a call from one of the angels in a time of despair. Is a supoort line with no one on the other end, where you just talk into a dead telephone, in any sense supportive? I don't think you were wrong only about the existence of the Abrahamic God but also about the essentially meaningless rendering of the concepts of friendship and paternal care that were impressed on you.

The friendship and paternal concern that you got from the triune God of Christianity you would also get from a block of wood. How do you get " unconditional love and acceptance" from something that doesn't interact with you in any way? At least the block of wood has an appearance, you didn't even have that.

My point is that your loss is illusory. You didn't have anything to lose besides an aberrant conception of friendship, paternalism, love and acceptance.

Quote:Now imagine, after 20 years of dedicating your entire being to this relationship, not losing that friend in some argument or terrible accident, but realizing that THAT PERSON NEVER EXISTED.

Yes, but that confirms that you weren't getting anything substantive from that source to begin with. At most you were getting some unjustified sense of confidence, a feeling, that is all. Whatever you have achieved or overcome is due to your capacities, the help and support of those real people around you and a good measure of blind chance.

Quote:it's quite a shock to your system. That has been the most difficult part for me...

I suspect that the shock would be reduced if you fully appreciate that you were operating with a corrupted set of concepts relating to fundamental human relationships. There is absolutely no way that total non-interaction can be meaningfully construed as friendship, love or support. To do so is to deprive those concepts of all meaning.
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31-10-2013, 09:47 AM
RE: The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
(30-10-2013 01:11 AM)Chippy Wrote:  =7tn64z2cCdk]
My point is that your loss is illusory. You didn't have anything to lose besides an aberrant conception of friendship, paternalism, love and acceptance... I suspect that the shock would be reduced if you fully appreciate that you were operating with a corrupted set of concepts relating to fundamental human relationships. There is absolutely no way that total non-interaction can be meaningfully construed as friendship, love or support. To do so is to deprive those concepts of all meaning.

I suppose I should have been a bit more clear, and I apologize for not doing so. It is no longer a shock to my system. It was when I first began applying critical thinking to this thing that I believed was the most important facet of my identity. I am not saying that I actually received love from God, I am saying that I honestly, with my entire being, *believed* that I received love from God. Realizing that any "experiences" were a trick of the mind and that I had dedicated the first 20 years of my life to something that was not there was, initially, a true shock. It no longer feels that way, I was merely trying to connect with the original poster who is very newly deconverted himself. I think that that feeling of doubt and loss and shock holds on for the first little while. The more you learn (at least in my case) the more those feelings shift to indignation and anger that you ever allowed yourself to believe something so stupidly, obviously false. And anger at those who did the indoctrinating. I will never raise my daughter to fear some mystical being in the sky. I think it's cruel. But I was taught that Christianity is true 24/7 until 10th grade. (church every Sunday, no secular music or movies allowed in my house, Baptist school, youth group, family bible readings and prayer times...) I was truly immersed. And I believed whole heartedly. I tried to convert non Christian friends and "fire up" those christian friends who seemed "backslidden". That was my life. Realizing that all of that effort, all of those emotions, all of that time was spent on nothing is an incredible shock when that realization first hits. I hope that I have cleared up what I meant to say.
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18-11-2013, 09:07 PM
RE: The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
I've been deconverted for three and a half years now and I still have an irrational fear of hell. I *know* it doesn't make sense, I *know* the Christian god is a crock, but I still fear hell and wonder "what if I'm wrong" a lot. Usually, when these feelings surface, I take a step back and reason through the implications of hell actually existing. If hell exists, god allowed it to be created and allows it to continue existing. He approves of it. So he must also approve of throwing people into it FOREVER. I've always figured that hell is so over the top scary because it HAS to be - its level of terror must be inversely proportional to the probability of its existence. If hell were only finitely terrifying, it would lose its power. And since hell is infinitely awful, then I figure it's actual probability of existence is infinitely small.

Not sure that makes sense.
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18-11-2013, 10:18 PM
RE: The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
The "what if I'm wrong" feeling is kind of a victim of it's own success. It's the cumulation of scare tactics that keep so many people attached to religion, yet asking serious questions such as this lead so many others away from religion.

What if you're wrong? Well, which religion would you be wrong about? There were hundreds of religions practiced for millenia before most of our major, modern day religions. Nobody ever wonders if the Egyptians were right. I can't see anyone these days sitting around memorizing the negative confessions for their heart weighing. Despite the fact that modern monotheists like to pretend that their religion is "the one true way" or "the only way," they are all just the same old shit to add to the long list of human religions. How the heck could *any* of these be correct? With the contradictions (both between and within) there's no way all religions are right. But it's highly likely all of them are wrong. It's just plain & simple math.

Here's a counterquestion: What if *they* are wrong? In that case they spent their entire life--the one and only thing we know for a fact every human receives--they spent it appeasing a deity/ies that don't exist and won't reward them in the afterlife. They wasted that one, precious thing on a superstition instead of being true to themselves and actually being happy while their heart was still beating. That seems like a worse fate to me.

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18-11-2013, 11:07 PM
RE: The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
So your wrong and gods a great guy. He will probably
watch Hovind videos with us and laugh till we can't breath.

If he's the asshole from the bible, then heaven cant be much worse than hell.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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22-11-2013, 03:52 PM
RE: The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
Just remember that there were other religions before Christianity, and there will be other religions in the future. Christians have a one in infinite chance of being right.
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22-11-2013, 04:09 PM
RE: The "what if I'm wrong" feeling
The Pascal's Wager "What if you're wrong" approach is like being sold a lottery ticket on the premise, "Ya' can't win if ya' don't play".

Crazy.
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