The word - "Nigger"
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04-07-2016, 11:32 PM
RE: Nigger
(04-07-2016 11:22 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(04-07-2016 10:55 PM)Aliza Wrote:  No, no "k-word" nonsense. I don't think anyone would know what you mean if you said, "k-word". Most people don't even know the word "kike".

The first time I ever heard it was in grad school, and I grew up in a state which gets a bad rep for racism. So my anecdotal agreement, for what it's worth. Also never felt the urge to use it, much like the word at the center of this topic.


As for freedom of speech as a central issue...when I was in 8th grade, my hometown, where one of the Confederacy's top generals was born, elected its first African American mayor. The KKK announced it was going to hold a demonstration against him shortly after he was sworn in; thing is, they needed a permit to hold the demonstration where they wanted to, because it was city property, not for public use. A lot of folks argued they shouldn't be given a permit. He personally made sure they got it, because freedom of speech should even apply to those we disagree with, even those whose hearts hold hate of some sort that we feel is irrational. When three Klansmen came to protest, the police were there to protect them and keep the pro and anti-Klan crowds from rioting; our new mayor welcomed them to the city, and offered him his hand. They refused to shake it...and he won. He showed he was the bigger man, that he believed in all the sorts of freedoms they would normally try to use to recruit people in the mostly-being-rebranded Klan, and that he was not afraid.

We didn't like the word, so we encouraged people to stop using it. -And then we didn't combine that effort with it being okay that we still use it for shits and giggles because we were somehow exempt. To be effective, everyone has to stop using it.

Before long, the word ceases to be a part of the language anymore.
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04-07-2016, 11:33 PM
RE: Nigger
Anyhoo, back on topic. As Momsurroundedbyboys says, words are given power only by the receiver. The word 'nigger' is a slang form of 'negro' which simply means black, which should make it actually less abusive than most any other derogatory word. It does call to attention ones racist attitude if used in an attack. But just a casual conversation or even a discussion like this, should not be cause for alarm, yet it apparently is so.

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04-07-2016, 11:33 PM
RE: Nigger
(04-07-2016 11:05 PM)TheBear Wrote:  How quickly this has turned into an attack on the individual raising the topic, rather than addressing the topic at hand. This is the 3rd page, and only one poster actually tried to address the topic at hand.

Is this the default value around here. Are ad hominmems the default, go-to options when faced with such inquiries? Is that all you got? Insults rather than discussion?

Out of all the forums I visit, I thought this would be one where we could actually discuss this intellectually and in-depth. How disappointing.

I think that may have something to do with the quality of the OP... and perhaps the location of the thread.

Had it been posted in the Philosophy section with greater specificity and depth, the responses may have been different.

For example, I would have asked for clarity regarding "any other derogatory remark in the world" in relation to "our culture".

The reaction I get to saying "fuck" in England or Australia is somewhat different to the reaction I got when I said it in Pakistan.

Had I said "nigger" in Pakistan, I doubt there would have been any reaction except from someone who has studied societies with a history of slavery (as Heatheness noted)... it might even have been the same as my reaction to Aliza's comment i.e. "what the fuck does "kike" mean?"

Smile

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04-07-2016, 11:37 PM
RE: Nigger
(04-07-2016 11:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  [
Had I said "nigger" in Pakistan,
Smile

According to this, add the word cave in front of it and you got something they may understand and hate you for.

http://www.rsdb.org/race/arabs

"If you keep trying to better yourself that's enough for me. We don't decide which hand we are dealt in life, but we make the decision to play it or fold it" - Nishi Karano Kaze
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04-07-2016, 11:37 PM
RE: Nigger
I've never used the word kike because I don't use slurs and because I really never knew what it meant, only that it was a slur. I never used the 'n' word either because I fought hard to get it out of my home growing up. My parents were avid users or all kinds of slurs. My sister and I banded together to stop that shit when I was in high school.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kike

I don't need slurs, slurs are too all encompassing to a group, not nearly individual enough for me. If I have a problem with someone I have with them not their race or their heritage. I'd much rather make my insults personal about a persons character or intelligence than any slur could do. Slurs are lazy thinking.

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04-07-2016, 11:38 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2016 11:43 PM by GenesisNemesis.)
RE: Nigger
The argument is that the only reason someone would use the word "nigger" is because they're racist. I don't agree with that argument. Also, to some people it's only a reminder of the atrocities that have been committed against black people. That argument is more understandable to me, but I still don't see a reason why it can't be used in the context of edgy humor, for instance. There aren't really any reasons to use the word, though, so it's sort of a stupid complaint that white people can't use it. I can live my life without using it, so can you. Move on.

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04-07-2016, 11:48 PM
RE: Nigger
(04-07-2016 11:37 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  
(04-07-2016 11:33 PM)DLJ Wrote:  [
Had I said "nigger" in Pakistan,
Smile

According to this, add the word cave in front of it and you got something they may understand and hate you for.

http://www.rsdb.org/race/arabs

Actually, I doubt that.

On Sunday I spent a few hours with a very mixed group. One guy from Iran was anecdoting about his experience with the word "Arab" and expressing his bewilderment that someone had described Iran as being Arabic.

So naturally, I referred to him as "the Arab" from then on. Big Grin

Pakistan is even further away, geographically, than Iran so I very much doubt that someone from Pakistan will even register it as pertaining to them.

Consider I'm not sure though. I'll test it next time I'm there.

Shy

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04-07-2016, 11:50 PM
RE: Nigger
I live in an area where some people still use it as a racial slur. It makes me cringe and the meaning, the intent, is what I have no desire to be associated with. I was in my twenties the first time I ever said it uncensored. Yes, it was in a quote. In fact, the very first time I used it at all was in a patient's chart. The ER desensitized me to it a bit.


One of the towns I lived in as a girl STILL has a reputation for being terribly racist. I was a majorette at the middle school - we won state. I was so fucking proud to be a part of that. When I moved in the middle of the year (I was bullied - I didn't have a southern accent, I was "weird" and...different), I wore my majorette letter jacket to school - I regularly competed against the girls at my new school and had already made friends with them at competitions. On my first day of school boy in my class asked me loud enough for everyone to hear if I was a racist because of where I was from, and then concluded that I must be. The silence was deafening in that room as everyone stared at me. I went home that first day and took my mother's sewing scissors and cut the monogram out of my jacket.

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04-07-2016, 11:51 PM
RE: Nigger
(04-07-2016 11:48 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(04-07-2016 11:37 PM)JDog554 Wrote:  According to this, add the word cave in front of it and you got something they may understand and hate you for.

http://www.rsdb.org/race/arabs

Actually, I doubt that.

On Sunday I spent a few hours with a very mixed group. One guy from Iran was anecdoting about his experience with the word "Arab" and expressing his bewilderment that someone had described Iran as being Arabic.

So naturally, I referred to him as "the Arab" from then on. Big Grin

Pakistan is even further away, geographically, than Iran so I very much doubt that someone from Pakistan will even register it as pertaining to them.

Consider I'm not sure though. I'll test it next time I'm there.

Shy

Ah well I was never good at geography.

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04-07-2016, 11:54 PM
RE: Nigger
(04-07-2016 11:32 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(04-07-2016 11:22 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  The first time I ever heard it was in grad school, and I grew up in a state which gets a bad rep for racism. So my anecdotal agreement, for what it's worth. Also never felt the urge to use it, much like the word at the center of this topic.


As for freedom of speech as a central issue...when I was in 8th grade, my hometown, where one of the Confederacy's top generals was born, elected its first African American mayor. The KKK announced it was going to hold a demonstration against him shortly after he was sworn in; thing is, they needed a permit to hold the demonstration where they wanted to, because it was city property, not for public use. A lot of folks argued they shouldn't be given a permit. He personally made sure they got it, because freedom of speech should even apply to those we disagree with, even those whose hearts hold hate of some sort that we feel is irrational. When three Klansmen came to protest, the police were there to protect them and keep the pro and anti-Klan crowds from rioting; our new mayor welcomed them to the city, and offered him his hand. They refused to shake it...and he won. He showed he was the bigger man, that he believed in all the sorts of freedoms they would normally try to use to recruit people in the mostly-being-rebranded Klan, and that he was not afraid.

We didn't like the word, so we encouraged people to stop using it. -And then we didn't combine that effort with it being okay that we still use it for shits and giggles because we were somehow exempt. To be effective, everyone has to stop using it.

Before long, the word ceases to be a part of the language anymore.

I've heard it so infrequently I had to look it up (when I returned, i saw shit blew up on the thread).

But it's an interesting point you've made. A good friend has railed against black people using the "n" word to each other.

She gets why they do -- the idea of taking back the power of the word. But she feels it should have just died out long ago.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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