The world without lies
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12-02-2013, 05:06 AM
The world without lies
We all say we value honesty.

The human species developed speech in order to convey information.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of human speech contains misinformation -- lies.

Not all lies are equally bad -- some 'white lies' are justified on the grounds of avoiding hurting someone.

Then there are the real whoppers politicans, businessmen, clergy, etc. make.

The question I have: try to imagine that due to some cosmic accident no human being could utter a lie ever again, starting today.

What do you imagine the short and long term consequences would be for our species?

Would it be a disaster, would it be paradise, or nothing would change? Huh
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12-02-2013, 06:00 AM
RE: The world without lies
Society would rip itself to pieces to begin with, afterwards people would adapt.

Society ripping itself to pieces doesn't scare me, telling the truth to justify going to war and people accepting it would.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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12-02-2013, 08:50 AM (This post was last modified: 12-02-2013 08:55 AM by Peterkin.)
RE: The world without lies
Quote: The question I have: try to imagine that due to some cosmic accident no
human being could utter a lie ever again, starting today.

What do you imagine the short and long term consequences would be for our species?

In the short term, there would be a confused babble, then, as somebody actually heard what somebody else was saying, a bewildered "Huh?" followed by shocked babble. You wha...? He did which? How many times? That was her? Hah - I told yous we never went to the moon!)

Then a period of silence. People who live by the lie would either be unable to or afraid to open their mouths, because they don't know what might come out next. Advertisements would acquire a sudden concision: "Here's a new car. We shoehorned one more electronic gizmo into the dash, otherwise it's the same as the last three models. Please buy it."
People who have grown rich and powerful through lies might be called to account by a gleeful, vengeful, righteous senate committees - who, themselves, could utter no statements, only questions. Lots of questions. Old court cases might be reopened.
Salesmen, lawyers and politicians, managers, lobbyists and insurance agents, bankers, investment brokers and priests would find themselves serious underemployed. The debt-load and money-supply would lose a bunch of imaginary 0's. Lovers would have to show, not tell. Parents and mentors would have to lead by example.

The world would grow much, much quieter....
... except, unfortunately, for the philosophers, proselytizers and generally deluded asshats who are unaware that they're promulgating methane.

And could we still have fiction in literature?

It's not the mean god I have trouble with - it's the people who worship a mean god.
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12-02-2013, 09:43 AM
RE: The world without lies
(12-02-2013 05:06 AM)Zat Wrote:  The question I have: try to imagine that due to some cosmic accident no human being could utter a lie ever again, starting today.

What do you imagine the short and long term consequences would be for our species?

Would it be a disaster, would it be paradise, or nothing would change? Huh
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1058017/?ref_=sr_1¨


And you know Zat, how Jacque Fresco spoke of a language that is not subject to interpretation. It would be essentially a language that has no lies.
Yes, the society would change.
Imagine the commercials, election promises and preaching of priests Big Grin Please come to believe together and reassure ourselves in the faith, to overcome that passage in Mark which contradicts that passage in Luke. Please disregard the hateful passages in Leviticus in favor of the loving passages in Matthew. Verily I say unto you, this book makes no sense, but let's just have fun together and bring your children.

If you claim there are nuances to principles, there are no nuances to getting arrested or shot for disobeying the power.
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12-02-2013, 01:22 PM
RE: The world without lies
Good question Zat.

But are we completely locked into language as Derrida claims.
Unless one follows one of the creation myths, humanity lived and emoted prior to any words being expressed.
Over thousands of years words seem to have become more the vehicles of corruption, reflecting insane and vested interests, rather than any meaningful collective good.

WE see this distortion in relative latter times with the divine right of Kings and all manner of biblical distortions and ambiguities utilized to achieve power. In present times Chomsky, often ridiculed, has indicated how fudgy logic and ambiguous reasoning help create a good guy/bad guy mentality, while ignoring more essential core issues.

As for people being unable to lie......................I imagine the souless entrepreneurs, add men, and social manipulators would just have to work a bit harder to confuse the masses.........
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12-02-2013, 03:21 PM
RE: The world without lies
If through "some cosmic accident no human being could utter a lie ever again" seems a done deal, it might be easy enough.
However, is one obligated to provide truth? Consider

*** on a side note for anyone who hasn't seen it ***
There's a hilarious film called The Invention of Lying which touches on this subject.
It's written, directed, and stars Ricky Gervais. Big Grin

I think in the end, I just feel like I'm a secular person who has a skeptical eye toward any extraordinary claim, carefully examining any extraordinary evidence before jumping to conclusions. ~ Eric ~ My friend ... who figured it out.
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12-02-2013, 05:04 PM
RE: The world without lies
(12-02-2013 03:21 PM)kim Wrote:  If through "some cosmic accident no human being could utter a lie ever again" seems a done deal, it might be easy enough.
However, is one obligated to provide truth? Consider
...
No, truth is not mandatory.

I think that inability to utter lies would be enough -- as Peterkin suggested, there would be a lot of blissful silence and I would not have to use the Mute button on TV all the time!
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12-02-2013, 05:10 PM
RE: The world without lies
A world without lies would be so dam boring.

NEW AND IMPROVED!
Twice the anger, Half the space!
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12-02-2013, 05:13 PM
RE: The world without lies
...
Strange things bore you, Hamata.

Me, I am bored with the lies -- I am old, I have heard all of them, many times. Big Grin
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13-02-2013, 03:10 AM
RE: The world without lies
(12-02-2013 05:13 PM)Zat Wrote:  ...
Strange things bore you, Hamata.

Me, I am bored with the lies -- I am old, I have heard all of them, many times. Big Grin
It would be boring if i was bored by normal things.

I find lies and all their manifestations interesting to the extreme. I look at it like a game between you and anyone else. It's just like chess where one wrong move can spell defeat. Each move must be carefully planned and you must anticipate what the other person is thinking. It's very entertaining.

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