The wrong question
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05-09-2012, 12:07 PM
The wrong question
So, the question Theists always ask is : "Well, how can it just all have come from nothing ?"

That is, IMHO, not the first question that needs answering.
The real question is : what caused "Causality" ?
Can that be addressed without Infinite Regression ?

Can causality arise spontaneously ? Is spacetime required for cause -> effect, to happen ? Does it HAVE to happen "in that order" ?

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05-09-2012, 12:11 PM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2012 12:16 PM by LadyJane.)
RE: The wrong question
(05-09-2012 12:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So, the question Theists always ask is : "Well, how can it just all have come from nothing ?"

That is, IMHO, not the first question that needs answering.
The real question is : what caused "Causality" ?
Can that be addressed without Infinite Regression ?

Can causality arise spontaneously ? Is spacetime required for cause -> effect, to happen ? Does it HAVE to happen "in that order" ?

Yes! And throw in time relativity, too. For good measure. Thumbsup

Maybe what 'was' nothing just still 'is' nothing Big Grin

ETA, oops, you did- spacetime. duh. Too much hyper coffee.
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05-09-2012, 12:22 PM
RE: The wrong question
I always thought that the wrong assumption was that God gives purpose. The question should never end with god. To me that is only the beginning. How does God give purpose for anything?

The best questions are the simplest. How, and why.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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05-09-2012, 01:06 PM
RE: The wrong question
Terrible, just terrible.

You simply replaced one unanswerable question for another.
Not exactly a huge improvement....
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05-09-2012, 04:42 PM
RE: The wrong question
(05-09-2012 12:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The real question is : what caused "Causality" ?

Is it anything more than just an artifact of our intellect?

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05-09-2012, 04:44 PM
RE: The wrong question
(05-09-2012 04:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 12:07 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  The real question is : what caused "Causality" ?

Is it anything more than just an artifact of our intellect?

It is if you accept the notion that you might be wrong about your three basic assumptions of reality.

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05-09-2012, 04:48 PM
RE: The wrong question
(05-09-2012 04:44 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 04:42 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Is it anything more than just an artifact of our intellect?

It is if you accept the notion that you might be wrong about your three basic assumptions of reality.

Huh? What might those be given that I don't even assume my own existence and nobody yet's been able to convince me of it.

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05-09-2012, 04:55 PM
RE: The wrong question
(05-09-2012 04:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 04:44 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  It is if you accept the notion that you might be wrong about your three basic assumptions of reality.

Huh? What might those be given that I don't even assume my own existence and nobody yet's been able to convince me of it.

In order for you to observe and function in reality, one must first assume its existence.

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05-09-2012, 05:46 PM
RE: The wrong question
It could be, in a sense. But not in another. If a follows b, and b comes into being as a result of b's activity, isn't that a structural element of the nature of Reality. I'm not saying that "everything has to have a cause", I'm asking "if the structure of reality is such that "a" can cause a "b", then THAT structural element or factor needs explanation, before we worry about the "a".

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05-09-2012, 06:08 PM (This post was last modified: 05-09-2012 06:14 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: The wrong question
(05-09-2012 04:55 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(05-09-2012 04:48 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Huh? What might those be given that I don't even assume my own existence and nobody yet's been able to convince me of it.

In order for you to observe and function in reality, one must first assume its existence.

The fuck you say. I function quite well without making any such assumption thankyou very much. ... Might even go so far as saying that dropping that assumption is the secret to my success, such as it is.

(05-09-2012 05:46 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  It could be, in a sense. But not in another. If a follows b, and b comes into being as a result of b's activity, isn't that a structural element of the nature of Reality. I'm not saying that "everything has to have a cause", I'm asking "if the structure of reality is such that "a" can cause a "b", then THAT structural element or factor needs explanation, before we worry about the "a".

Read Hume the Pigsticking Provacateur, Fullerene. Wink

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