Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
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29-10-2016, 10:14 AM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2016 10:43 AM by Velvet.)
RE: Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
This is a bit confusing but working semantics always is, haha

Unknown imo everything would be easier if you just acknowledged (as I already know that you know that) you are an Atheist IF we use the definition that most of the people here are using (and as far as I can tell, they also use it on serious debates except ofc when W. L. Craig decides to Red herring a bit).

But add then that this definition is incomplete in your perspective as it disregards essential factors in your stance.

The person (if interested) will then likely ask: ''Well, what factors?''

And then you would say: I'm too hesitant to imply that God might not exist by using the word ''atheism'', because while I don't hold Theism as a belief, I would wouldn't feel sincerely represented implying that the reason I do not hold Theism is because I think he doesn't exist, because I also do not think that he doesn't.

Even then the response might be: Well, you are an Atheist then, you just said ''I don't hold Theism as a belief'', so you are a Atheist, you just defined Atheism.

Atheist = NOT+Theist, so err little space to move in the top of that sign of equal.

Anyways on the definitions we are using, you HAVE to be either [Anthitheist or A-Anthitheist, Adressing the Claim ''No God Exist''] and [Atheist or Theist, Adressing the Claim ''God/s Exist/s''], and there's nothing between to roam around, [Agnostic or Gnostic] has absolutely nothing to do with it as it address other proposition. (And yes Deists would be Atheists because they reject Theism)

Therefore, under the definition that people are using, you are a Agnostic-Atheist, unless you:
1) know if God exists or not (which you said you don't)
2) accept Theism as a belief (which you said you don't).

So, welcome to Agnostic Atheist boat, don't worry we won't judge you for not liking our terminology, for us if you are not a Theist and doesn't claim to have knowledge of god you may use our sauna and ice cream machines, report Cap.Dawkins for our splendid tour and enjoy the trip. =D

Sorry but even thinking hard I can't offer you any way that you could not be a Atheist without being a Theist, even if you don't wanna imply that you think God probably or most likely doesn`t exist.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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29-10-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
My last attempt.

If someone holds a belief about anything, they are aware of it.

If you don't know if you hold a belief, then it would seem logical that you don't hold the belief.

Saying "I don't know if I have this belief is the same as not holding the belief."

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29-10-2016, 11:42 AM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2016 02:36 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
(29-10-2016 12:00 AM)unknowndevil666 Wrote:  
(28-10-2016 10:22 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I'm for example absent belief in god - based on lack of evidence I think that such vaguely defined thing do not exist.

I'm sorry, but thanks for proving my freakin' point Facepalm

Don't make me laugh. You believe* god does not exist. I reject the notion of something called god existing cause there are no evidence for such. I need no belief when lack of evidence speak for itself.

*Edit: You believed.

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The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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29-10-2016, 11:46 AM
RE: Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
(29-10-2016 11:08 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If someone holds a belief about anything, they are aware of it.

Are you sure?

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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29-10-2016, 11:49 AM
RE: Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
(29-10-2016 11:46 AM)Velvet Wrote:  
(29-10-2016 11:08 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  If someone holds a belief about anything, they are aware of it.

Are you sure?

Name a belief that you hold that you aren't aware of.

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29-10-2016, 11:54 AM
RE: Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
(29-10-2016 11:42 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Don't make me laugh. You believe god does not exist. I reject the notion of something called god existing cause there are no evidence for such. I need no belief when lack of evidence speak for itself.

Don't affirm he believe something, you can't do that.

Only him can tell us what he believes, we are only entitled to say what label people will expect him to recognize, but affirming he does believe something when he says he doesn't is rude, and I also think you are wrong, he doesn't hold that belief.

The lack of evidence doesn't necessarily speak for itself otherwise everyone would be an Atheist.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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29-10-2016, 11:58 AM
RE: Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
(29-10-2016 11:49 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Name a belief that you hold that you aren't aware of.

Could I have a belief that black people are likely to be thieves or burglars enough to always cross the street when I'm heading towards one at night, while STILL sincerely deny that this is something I'm convinced of?

Idk, i'm really asking, are you sure? Could you maybe point me to something more elaborated on the subject?

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29-10-2016, 12:04 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2016 12:10 PM by Szuchow.)
RE: Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
(29-10-2016 11:54 AM)Velvet Wrote:  
(29-10-2016 11:42 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Don't make me laugh. You believe god does not exist. I reject the notion of something called god existing cause there are no evidence for such. I need no belief when lack of evidence speak for itself.

Don't affirm he believe something, you can't do that.


I just did it so I obviously can. Also look on OP.

I should have written "you believed" though, as UnknownDevil reffered to the past in his OP.

Quote: Only him can tell us what he believes, we are only entitled to say what label people will expect him to recognize, but affirming he does believe something when he says he doesn't is rude, and I also think you are wrong, he doesn't hold that belief.


Look to first post before you start whinning.

Quote: The lack of evidence doesn't necessarily speak for itself otherwise everyone would be an Atheist.

Or maybe not everyone are capable of seeing such lack. Indoctrination is a thing, longing for simple and definitive if silly answers also.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

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29-10-2016, 12:24 PM (This post was last modified: 29-10-2016 12:27 PM by Velvet.)
RE: Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
(29-10-2016 12:04 PM)Szuchow Wrote:  I just did it so I obviously can. Also look on OP.

I should have written "you believed" though, as UnknownDevil reffered to the past in his OP.

Look to first post before you start whinning.

Yes, so you agree with me that you shouldn't have said that, btw why are you being so rude? I'm new here so if you have some problem of chronic pain to justify your tune towards people you don't even know i'm unaware of that.

Quote:
Or maybe not everyone are capable of seeing such lack. Indoctrination is a thing, longing for simple and definitive if silly answers also.

Evidence doesn't speak for itself, it depends on you acknowledging as evidence.

We always had plenty of evidence for heliocentrism but we never saw it until copernicus and galileo, were everyone before them ''uncapable of seing evidence that speaks for itself''?

''Evidence speaks for itself'' is wrong, if you hold a belief that God doesn't exist, is still a belief that you hold (based on evidence), you need belief, its just a justified one.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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29-10-2016, 12:26 PM
RE: Theism, Agnosticism, and Atheism
(29-10-2016 11:58 AM)Velvet Wrote:  
(29-10-2016 11:49 AM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Name a belief that you hold that you aren't aware of.

Could I have a belief that black people are likely to be thieves or burglars enough to always cross the street when I'm heading towards one at night, while STILL sincerely deny that this is something I'm convinced of?

Idk, i'm really asking, are you sure? Could you maybe point me to something more elaborated on the subject?

What is the belief that you're unaware of in the given scenario ?

Perhaps you are unaware that you believe that black people are aliens that only want to feed off human brains.

If so, why would you believe that ?

You might reply "I don't believe that"
My retort "That you are aware of"

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