Theism vs. Theism
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09-02-2013, 01:29 PM
RE: Theism vs. Theism
(09-02-2013 01:13 PM)bemore Wrote:  
(09-02-2013 12:39 PM)Starcrash Wrote:  I don't agree. The passive aggressiveness and semi-condescension are things that I think you put on him, not things that he brought. Couldn't anyone who debates his point-of-view in a friendly manner be labeled passive aggressive? Couldn't anyone with confidence in his argument be labeled condescending? I agree with DLJ that he was incredibly polite: allowing his opponents to finish what they were saying before he spoke (even when the favor wasn't returned), referring to his opponents as "brother", and speaking with a kind tone that was free of anger.

Nor do I think he used leading questions. He did ask "Option A or Option B?" a few times, but they struck me as legitimate dilemmas. The fact that he was a Muslim doesn't mean that you have to find fault in his argument, nor does the fact that he opposes Christianity mean that you have to agree. But I'd cut the guy some slack. I wish my debate opponents could be as knowledgeable about the topic and as respectful in presenting that knowledge.

It's a good video, DLJ. Thanks for posting it.
His religion is Islam.

He using using his own interpretation of Christianity to nullify their beliefs and back up his own.

Leading questions are where you lead people to certain answers, I used to do it in sales and in (my opinion) I recognise him doing that in particular to the young black guy, wether the muslim guy was doing it consciously or not.

Why does it matter that he was arguing against Christianity in support of Islam? It's obvious that he would have a bias for Islam, and his arguments weren't based on a platform of "my religion says this, so your religion must be wrong about it". His arguments could have just as easily come from an atheist.

When I use the term 'leading question', I mean it in the sense that they would use it in court. I guess it didn't offend me because I would have done the same. For example, before knocking down a Christian's argument about God's love I might say, "don't you believe in a hell that burns people for eternity?" I would expect a yes answer so that I could explain why that is incompatible with a loving God. It does lead people to a specific answer, but it's one that you suspect that your opponent already agrees with -- you're just trying to draw it out so that they don't have the opportunity to say something like "that only works if you believe in a hell that burns people for eternity, and I don't believe in that". Even if the believer did believe in such a hell, once you've cornered them into accepting your conclusion, they could try such a tactic as reversing their undeclared opinions, and DLJ helpfully pointed out that the young black man did exactly that when he "reversed his stance about the bible being the word of God".

My girlfriend is mad at me. Perhaps I shouldn't have tried cooking a stick in her non-stick pan.
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10-02-2013, 01:24 AM
 
RE: Theism vs. Theism
Notice how atheists always give Muslims a pass, and yet they are the epitome of the destructiveness of religion. Face it: Atheists are in a war with Christ, and that's it. They hate Christ. All other religions are fine--they just hate Christ. How can you not see the hand of Satan in your atheism? How can you not see it?

No other religion, outside of those that lift up Christ, is a threat to you--only Christ. Besides, look at them: Buddhism is a stupid philosophy aimed at ending suffering--a gun in the mouth can do that. Islam is a mere reaction to Christianity from the Middle East. They blow themselves up to prove their point.

But the power of Christ has been unmistakeable for 2000 years. Now the gay, weed-smoking, Wall Street-protesting, Obama-loving, x-box generation of losers wants to claim there is no God. Pathetic!

Christ is the only way, the only Truth, the only life. You can get religious whores like KC on any street corner next to the local church, but that doesn't change a thing. You put your faith in Christ, you transform your spirit into Christ, or you roast in hell. That's it. That's the totality of all theology.

Now, on to something significant (since most atheists in here won't hear a thing and are destined to be charcoal at the Heaven Community BBQ.), I'm thinking of joining Toastmasters again. I was a "Toastmaster-silver" before. I even won a Division speech contest once in Ft. Walton Beach, FL. I was an area govenor. I even had an article published in Toastmaster Magazine. I sold a lot of books with them--back in the old school days of publishing. I think I'll exit out of here and google it.
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10-02-2013, 01:36 AM
RE: Theism vs. Theism
(10-02-2013 01:24 AM)Egor Wrote:  Notice how atheists always give Muslims a pass, and yet they are the epitome of the destructiveness of religion. Face it: Atheists are in a war with Christ, and that's it. They hate Christ. All other religions are fine--they just hate Christ. How can you not see the hand of Satan in your atheism? How can you not see it?

No other religion, outside of those that lift up Christ, is a threat to you--only Christ. Besides, look at them: Buddhism is a stupid philosophy aimed at ending suffering--a gun in the mouth can do that. Islam is a mere reaction to Christianity from the Middle East. They blow themselves up to prove their point.

But the power of Christ has been unmistakeable for 2000 years. Now the gay, weed-smoking, Wall Street-protesting, Obama-loving, x-box generation of losers wants to claim there is no God. Pathetic!

Christ is the only way, the only Truth, the only life. You can get religious whores like KC on any street corner next to the local church, but that doesn't change a thing. You put your faith in Christ, you transform your spirit into Christ or you roast in hell. That's it. That's the totality of all theology.

Thanks for the contribution, my friend, but I'm not biting.

Many of my Buddhist buddies are off to the temple today (Chúc mừng năm mới and all that) to pray for their families and such, so apart from a little eye-rolling I'm not going to tease them too much about the futility of prayer.
But I will use your excellent line "...ending suffering--a gun in the mouth can do that." at some later date.

Thanks for that. Good one.

I am, however, a little worried that I, for one, don't fit any of you adjectives for atheism... "gay, weed-smoking, Wall Street-protesting, Obama-loving, x-box generation of losers" as I try so hard to fit the stereotype.

I will have to resign myself to a life of non-conformity.

Alack and alas.

Weeping
Tongue

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10-02-2013, 01:56 AM
 
RE: Theism vs. Theism
(10-02-2013 01:36 AM)DLJ Wrote:  Thanks for the contribution, my friend, but I'm not biting.

Many of my Buddhist buddies are off to the temple today (Chúc mừng năm mới and all that) to pray for their families and such, so apart from a little eye-rolling I'm not going to tease them too much about the futility of prayer.
But I will use your excellent line "...ending suffering--a gun in the mouth can do that." at some later date.

Thanks for that. Good one.

I am, however, a little worried that I, for one, don't fit any of you adjectives for atheism... "gay, weed-smoking, Wall Street-protesting, Obama-loving, x-box generation of losers" as I try so hard to fit the stereotype.

I will have to resign myself to a life of non-conformity.

Alack and alas.

Weeping
Tongue

You're a narcissist. It's painfully obvious. That's the other reason for being an atheist. One reason is you want to sin, the other is you're pathologically self-important--so you can never die to the self, which is required to be saved. So, it's easier to be an atheist and avoid the whole salvation issue.

And get a new avatar. You're too old for that. Jeez.
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10-02-2013, 02:05 AM
Theism vs. Theism
Is Egor still trying to promote his religion of cannibalism? What kind of sauce are planning to use on me? Make sure it's spicy as hell.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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10-02-2013, 02:08 AM
RE: Theism vs. Theism
(10-02-2013 01:56 AM)Egor Wrote:  So, it's easier to be an atheist and avoid the whole salvation issue.

Cool. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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10-02-2013, 02:11 AM
RE: Theism vs. Theism
(10-02-2013 01:56 AM)Egor Wrote:  You're a narcissist. It's painfully obvious. That's the other reason for being an atheist. One reason is you want to sin, the other is you're pathologically self-important--so you can never die to the self, which is required to be saved. So, it's easier to be an atheist and avoid the whole salvation issue.

And get a new avatar. You're too old for that. Jeez.

LOL.
I don't LOL very often but this time I actually did.

Oddly enough, my colleague and I have been having a discussion this weekend about our new salesperson (who I recruited). She is very erratic and has been upsetting all (I mean all) of the staff.
My colleague wondered if she (the new person) might be autistic. I took fake offence at this, being an Aspie, and offered NPD ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissisti...y_disorder ) as a diagnosis as almost all of the symptoms match.

That fact that the new person is our only christian on the team is incidental... she's only a christian because she was born in the Philippines and it's only just beginning to be challenged there.

But now you have me wondering if there might be a correlation (if not causation).

Consider

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10-02-2013, 02:32 AM (This post was last modified: 10-02-2013 02:36 AM by Vosur.)
RE: Theism vs. Theism
(10-02-2013 01:56 AM)Egor Wrote:  You're a narcissist. It's painfully obvious. That's the other reason for being an atheist. One reason is you want to sin, the other is you're pathologically self-important--so you can never die to the self, which is required to be saved. So, it's easier to be an atheist and avoid the whole salvation issue.

And get a new avatar. You're too old for that. Jeez.
You are truly a pitiful person, Egor. I can't say that I would like being in your place, because I couldn't live with myself if I was such a bitter and hateful guy; forever stuck with a simple-minded view of the world.

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10-02-2013, 02:55 AM
 
RE: Theism vs. Theism
(10-02-2013 02:32 AM)Vosur Wrote:  You are truly a pitiful person, Egor.

Bite me. Drinking Beverage


Quote:I can't say that I would like being in your place, because I couldn't live with myself if I was such a bitter and hateful guy; forever stuck with a simple-minded view of the world.

Hateful? I'm not hateful. I'm just telling you like it is. If you die an atheist; you go to hell. That you consider that "hateful" only indicates that you should look at yourself more closely. And you should examine your belief more closely--it is a dead end road.

Everyone believes in God. All atheism is is a rebellion against Christ--that's it. I will prove that point many times with many people in my forum this year. It's a new revelation from God that I've had. I'm not sure anyone has ever used this argument before.Girl_nails

Time for bed. Bye.
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10-02-2013, 03:09 AM
RE: Theism vs. Theism
Ooh... they used the Caravaggio... nice. Thumbsup
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A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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