Theist Morality
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02-09-2014, 10:19 AM
RE: Theist Morality
(30-08-2014 07:06 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Morality cannot exist if God doesn't exist.
Except morality does and God doesn't. So there's that. Drinking Beverage

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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02-09-2014, 10:54 AM
RE: Theist Morality
Boy, this thread went to Hell in a hand basket. But, diddo97, therefore...

Anyway, to address the OPs question: There is an unpardonable sin.

Mark 3: 30, "Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;’ because they said, ‘He has an unclean spirit’”

Similarly, Matt. 12:31-32, “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come”

Christians will no doubt employ the "no true Scotsman" fallacy here. No true believer would blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Conversely, if you blaspheme the Hole Spirit, you never were a true Christian and can safely be condemned to hell forever. Otherwise, these verses stand in contradiction to John 10:28-29 where Jesus says, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

Doc
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02-09-2014, 10:55 AM
RE: Theist Morality
(02-09-2014 10:19 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(30-08-2014 07:06 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Morality cannot exist if God doesn't exist.
Except morality does and God doesn't. So there's that. Drinking Beverage

God does exist... Facepalm

Truth seeker.
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02-09-2014, 10:58 AM
RE: Theist Morality
(02-09-2014 10:55 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(02-09-2014 10:19 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Except morality does and God doesn't. So there's that. Drinking Beverage

God does exist... Facepalm
Your imagination is not existence.

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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02-09-2014, 11:01 AM
RE: Theist Morality
(02-09-2014 10:54 AM)docskeptic Wrote:  Boy, this thread went to Hell in a hand basket. But, diddo97, therefore...

Anyway, to address the OPs question: There is an unpardonable sin.

Mark 3: 30, "Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;’ because they said, ‘He has an unclean spirit’”

Similarly, Matt. 12:31-32, “Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come”

Christians will no doubt employ the "no true Scotsman" fallacy here. No true believer would blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Conversely, if you blaspheme the Hole Spirit, you never were a true Christian and can safely be condemned to hell forever. Otherwise, these verses stand in contradiction to John 10:28-29 where Jesus says, "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand."

Doc
Fucking Holy Spirit. Who does it think it is to feel entitled to such a special position. Dodgy

Oh, oops. Unsure

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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02-09-2014, 11:03 AM
RE: Theist Morality
(02-09-2014 10:58 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(02-09-2014 10:55 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  God does exist... Facepalm
Your imagination is not existence.

Gos is not part of my imagination. I don't want to believe in God.

Truth seeker.
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02-09-2014, 11:13 AM
RE: Theist Morality
(30-08-2014 09:24 AM)striper Wrote:  I tired of theists asking, "If you don't believe in god, where do you get your morals from". But if all that is required to get to heaven is the "belief" in god, no matter what horrific things you might do, because believers are forgiven, What keeps believers from raping and murdering? What is the "fear of god" that I always hear theists talk about. Why fear when all is forgiven?

I made a similar thread a while ago about how the Christian God incentivizes the wrong things.

Now, the handwave you'll get from an apologist is that a "true" Christian won't want to sin, because Jesus, or something. It's a handwave answer that doesn't address the issue. They just assert that no true Scotsman Christian would ever do that, so it's not a problem.

Still, this is actually the least creepy/stupid thing you're going to run into when dealing with apologetics regarding Christian morality. Keep em going long enough, and you'll get them to tell you that the justification of suffering is free will, and the justification of that is that YHWH needs real friends, and it's super important for him to know who they are without reading their minds/looking at the future (two things he can supposedly do).

But yeah, if you try to make sense of this, realize that it's a bunch of apologetics based on modern sensibilities trying to make sense of an iron age religion piggy backing on a bronze age religion. It's going to get pretty fucked once you start peeling the layers of that onion back.


Also, welcome, and great first post!
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02-09-2014, 12:03 PM
RE: Theist Morality
(02-09-2014 11:03 AM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(02-09-2014 10:58 AM)Impulse Wrote:  Your imagination is not existence.

Gos is not part of my imagination. I don't want to believe in God.

Great! If he isn't part of your imagination and is objectively verifiable, prove it!

Note: "Because I said so" or "The bible said so" is not valid.

Also, if God is good in your head (despite him slaughtering many of his own people for asking questions or being whiny according to the Bible), why don't you want to believe in him?
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