Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
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28-02-2012, 11:24 AM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(28-02-2012 11:16 AM)Egor Wrote:  I take it by Doctrine of Election you mean that God chooses who will be saved and who will not rather than us independently choosing to be saved by faith. If that's the case, I take it then that you do not go to a Calvinist church (my understanding being that the Doctrine of Election is a Calvinist teaching).

Yes.

I go to a traditional Southern Baptist church. There aren't many reformed churches in and around Baton Rouge.

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28-02-2012, 12:14 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(28-02-2012 11:20 AM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  "...this is a little post I made towards Christians..."
Because posting it here will find such a HUGE Christian audience?
No, posting it here is a way to find critique from a different perspective.

Some of us call that brave.

Quote:Even his local church was smart enough to not listen.
Don't feel bad KC, we are banned from preaching there too.
With every post you make, it becomes more evident that you are determined to hate and undermine someone who is willing to have their beliefs scrutinized by people who are of a different opinion all together. You seem so determined in fact, that you ignore all the evidence that demonstrates that KC is someone who we should not only embrace, but someone who belongs here. Some may even argue that he belongs more than you, since he is at least willing to question his own ideas.

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28-02-2012, 12:20 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(28-02-2012 11:17 AM)Lilith Pride Wrote:  It's a well made statement. Something many of them will hopefully learn from. But seriously king, if you're position in the church is the white elephant the only thing they'll ever see you doing is harm. You've been branded and it's no fun. If you really want to help others go somewhere where people are willing to be helped by you.

Again, this has been an ongoing issue... and in light of recent events, things may be changing.

Quote:You can go somewhere else easily. There ae billions of churches with billions of personal identities. You consider the people at your church to in general be on your side. What are you trying to prove to them then?

The issue is that there isn't a lot of reformed churches in my area. The other issue is that we are deeply rooted in this church, and it's just not that easy to leave.

I'm not trying to prove anything to them. I'm trying to get them to think... to study... to understand why they call themselves Christians. Asking hard questions invokes this.

Quote:When you went there I'm sure you were perfectly accepted, and now you're the one bringing up questions that they are afraid of. How important are these questions?

They are important to grow in your faith. Yes, some people say they want to be challenged but when they are they crumble. I'm accepting this challenge and exposing them to different theology.

Quote:How important is your personal vision of this? How necessary is it to teach this exact view to those who have similar enough leanings?

Again, it's important that they learn and equip themselves with knowledge. I promise you, most of them would not last a minute here. They would be eviscerated because they fail to understand their own theology.

Quote:Why treat those you normally call your allies as your enemies? What you're saying here is important for everyone to realize. It's good to remove that hardcore gnosticism that binds the world into black and white, but at the same time what you'e doing where you worship is give them someone to blame. You're the one making them uncomfortable and they have been trying to figure it out.

I'm not making them my enemies. I'm asking legitimate questions. It's better that I make them uncomfortable and force them to seek answers than to have an unbeliever do it.

Quote:An excuse I've gotten millions of times from all sorts of people is that I should be willing to be uncomfortable, because for me to feel comfort everyone else will be uncomfortable. I want you to realize that this is where you're going. Are you fine with making everyone uncomfortable?

If scripture and sound theology makes Christians uncomfortable, then yes.

Quote:Must you change everything yourself? Or are things fine as they are? Think about this for a while. There are times where pushing from the outside is important because there's no place to fit in, but there are also times where all your pushing is only because you didn't notice where you belonged.

I can't change anything or anyone. God can use me for change, though. God has placed the desire in me to teach these things. I cannot act outside of it.

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28-02-2012, 12:30 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(28-02-2012 12:20 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  God has placed the desire in me to teach these things. I cannot act outside of it.

Damn, just when I am starting to be able to take you seriously despite the fact that all your thoughts are based on a falsehood, you say something like this. You seem way to adult to have imaginary friends whisper to you what you have to do.

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28-02-2012, 12:33 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(28-02-2012 12:30 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(28-02-2012 12:20 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  God has placed the desire in me to teach these things. I cannot act outside of it.

Damn, just when I am starting to be able to take you seriously despite the fact that all your thoughts are based on a falsehood, you say something like this. You seem way to adult to have imaginary friends whisper to you what you have to do.

Or you don't understand my theology.

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28-02-2012, 12:44 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
I think... that posting it on your fb page is gonna make for church drama... there'll be lots of muttering and you'll find yourself (a wife? does she agree with you on this stuff?) getting more and more isolated.

KC you might have to be a closet Calvinist Big Grin

Depending on how badly you want to fit in that is - how much will it cost you to give up this church and the friendships? Make no mistake, it will probably come to that eventually. It's sad but... yeah, it happens.

It's not all bad. You can have a lot of fun if you get over the need to tell other people your beliefs... but if they think of you as that crank who's always advancing almost atheistic ideas they'll start distancing themselves from you.

That's my prediction anyway...
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28-02-2012, 12:44 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(28-02-2012 12:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(28-02-2012 12:30 PM)Dom Wrote:  
(28-02-2012 12:20 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  God has placed the desire in me to teach these things. I cannot act outside of it.

Damn, just when I am starting to be able to take you seriously despite the fact that all your thoughts are based on a falsehood, you say something like this. You seem way to adult to have imaginary friends whisper to you what you have to do.

Or you don't understand my theology.

No, I'd say she understands it perfectly.

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28-02-2012, 01:07 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(28-02-2012 12:33 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Or you don't understand my theology.

It's just not in 'gods' plan for everyone to understand it apparently.
You'd think the guy would be a little more consistent and obvious.

But that's god for ya, kill today, love tomorrow, but always be sneaky about it.
Never let 'em see you do it.
It's a great strategy to save everyone!

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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28-02-2012, 02:12 PM
 
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
I would say that, KC, you are a Christian. You are a Protestant Christian, and you live in a predominantly Baptist part of the U.S. (It’s as much Catholic, too, but you are not.). The doctrine that separates you and antagonizes them is not particularly important in the scheme of things. It’s a how-many-angels-can-stand-on-the-head-of-a-pin debate. Because Jesus did say that God was not willing that any should perish. Nevertheless, it’s apparent that God also chooses who will be saved.

Somewhere in there is the truth, but it’s not important to your salvation or their salvation. It is important, as you say, to their spiritual growth, but my friend, I think you’re asking babies to work out at a gym.

You said yourself they wouldn’t last a second in Thinking Atheist Forums, and you’re right. You can hold your own in here, but your humility, which otherwise would be a good thing, in this case, is blinding you to the fact that they just can’t handle what you can handle.

If you need this church, if your family needs or wants this church, then you have to drop this and get in line with their teaching. Part of being a Christian is accepting the spiritual authority of others. I am incapable of doing that, that’s why I’m not a Christian. You have to make a decision: either you start your own church or you get in line with your church’s program. You want to make a stand, but you’re standing against your Church.

And, seriously, KC, if this is the only theological problem you have, you’re awfully lucky. But I’m sensing something else is at work here. I get the feeling this is simply one of many issues you have with this church, and I think you’d also have these problems in a Calvinist Church, too. I think you are in the middle of a huge crisis of faith.

Dang it. I come in here as myself and my rep points are increasing. I used to be a -17, and I was pretty proud of that. How do you add to someone's rep points?
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28-02-2012, 02:27 PM (This post was last modified: 28-02-2012 02:29 PM by kingschosen.)
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(28-02-2012 02:12 PM)Egor Wrote:  I would say that, KC, you are a Christian. You are a Protestant Christian, and you live in a predominantly Baptist part of the U.S. (It’s as much Catholic, too, but you are not.). The doctrine that separates you and antagonizes them is not particularly important in the scheme of things. It’s a how-many-angels-can-stand-on-the-head-of-a-pin debate. Because Jesus did say that God was not willing that any should perish. Nevertheless, it’s apparent that God also chooses who will be saved.

You are correct. And, I can't understand why it's creating such controversy. I haven't preached Calvinism at the church... like at all. People have approached me because they knew that I believed it and asked me questions. When I answered those questions they got mad. I really don't understand.

Quote:Somewhere in there is the truth, but it’s not important to your salvation or their salvation. It is important, as you say, to their spiritual growth, but my friend, I think you’re asking babies to work out at a gym.

Yet again you are right... on both accounts.

Quote:You said yourself they wouldn’t last a second in Thinking Atheist Forums, and you’re right. You can hold your own in here, but your humility, which otherwise would be a good thing, in this case, is blinding you to the fact that they just can’t handle what you can handle.

Hmmm, not something I have really thought about, but you may be on to something. People that disagree with me say things like, "I don't feel like God would do that" or "That's not how my God acts" or "That's not what the scripture means".

I tell them it doesn't matter what you think or feel because scriptures say that God acts this way. At this, they tell me to never talk to them again. So yeah... *gasp* you may be right again.

Quote:If you need this church, if your family needs or wants this church, then you have to drop this and get in line with their teaching. Part of being a Christian is accepting the spiritual authority of others. I am incapable of doing that, that’s why I’m not a Christian. You have to make a decision: either you start your own church or you get in line with your church’s program. You want to make a stand, but you’re standing against your Church.

I have understood that conclusion, and I don't mind being under Arminian authority. It doesn't affect my theology in the least; however, what I don't agree with is not letting me teach on subjects that are completely unrelated.

Quote:And, seriously, KC, if this is the only theological problem you have, you’re awfully lucky. But I’m sensing something else is at work here. I get the feeling this is simply one of many issues you have with this church, and I think you’d also have these problems in a Calvinist Church, too. I think you are in the middle of a huge crisis of faith.

Well no. There are other theological differences I have with Southern Baptists. I am an amillennialist and an evolutionary creationists. There are also a few other things that I believe that differ, but they are minute.

You are wrong the crisis of faith. I would say it's more of a crisis of community. My faith has never been as anchored as it is now.

Quote:Dang it. I come in here as myself and my rep points are increasing. I used to be a -17, and I was pretty proud of that.

You're a great guy when you're being Edward. Like, really great. I wish you wouldn't be your Egor persona anymore. Edward is much better all the way around.
(28-02-2012 02:12 PM)Egor Wrote:  How do you add to someone's rep points?

I think you have to be approved by Lucradis. Given your history, I don't know if that's going to happen. However, if you keep acting and conversing like you have been the past couple of day, that might be restored.

I really, really hope you do that. You are a cool dude like this.

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