Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
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29-02-2012, 12:58 PM
 
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
Well KC, I would say it looks like it's time to find another church. For starters, a pastor that's actually going to get into a Facebook war doesn't seem very "pastor-like" to me. Second, if this is such a big belief issue within your church, they ought to just tell you you're not welcome there anymore. I mean, if they think you're trying to spread false doctrines, then they have a duty to protect their congregation. I'm not saying you are spreading false doctrine, I'm just saying if they think that.

What are you going to do now?
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29-02-2012, 01:01 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
This is what I've encountered quite enough in the church and it's hard to put into words when my dad asks what I have against the church... The intended message in your post was clear (although I disagree that you should put any stock into the Bible) and the pastor was to completely paint it as an attack against faith and belief (because it could easily have been made into a weak attack against faith).

But you really do need to knock people out of that "I know God is real because the Bible!" mentality... That sort of mentality is part of the reason why they can't think for themselves about anything. And a blinded pastor who can't think for himself... it adds to the problem of insulation against anything different in the US's religious world that causes so many problems for anyone who isn't religious or who has a different religion.
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29-02-2012, 01:03 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(29-02-2012 12:58 PM)Egor Wrote:  Well KC, I would say it looks like it's time to find another church. For starters, a pastor that's actually going to get into a Facebook war doesn't seem very "pastor-like" to me. Second, if this is such a big belief issue within your church, they ought to just tell you you're not welcome there anymore. I mean, if they think you're trying to spread false doctrines, then they have a duty to protect their congregation. I'm not saying you are spreading false doctrine, I'm just saying if they think that.

What are you going to do now?

Well, that guy isn't from my church. He is a pastor in the area at a church that close to us, though. However, he correctly represents the issues I've been dealing with for the past 3 years or so.

And I don't know... my wife is fed up too. I'm still praying about it.

And, on a side note, in my experience, "Christians" have been some of the meanest, dishonest, ignorant, and dumbest people I've ever encountered.

But... I'm starting to think that God's purpose for me is to help change this... at least, that's the direction that my life has been taking.

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29-02-2012, 01:05 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(29-02-2012 01:03 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  But... I'm starting to think that God's purpose for me is to help change this... at least, that's the direction that my life has been taking.

People have been trying to change that for hundreds of years. Good luck...
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29-02-2012, 01:12 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
"... Jeremy is arguing that one cannot %100 prove the existence of God based on empirical evidence."

This just isn't correct.
We CAN prove the existence of god IF there were any empirical evidence to support it!
Please remember what empirical means and what empirical evidence is.
The word empirical denotes information acquired by means of observation or experimentation.

Empirical research is a way of gaining knowledge by means of direct and indirect observation or experience. Empirical evidence (the record of one's direct observations or experiences) can be analyzed quantitatively or qualitatively. Through quantifying the evidence or making sense of it in qualitative form, a researcher can answer empirical questions,(like, is this god?) which should be clearly defined and answerable with the evidence collected (usually called data).

A central concept in modern science and the scientific method is that all evidence must be empirical, or empirically based, that is, dependent on evidence or consequences that are observable by the senses.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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29-02-2012, 01:16 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(29-02-2012 01:12 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  "... Jeremy is arguing that one cannot %100 prove the existence of God based on empirical evidence."

This just isn't correct.
We CAN prove the existence of god IF there were any empirical evidence to support it!

Stop there.

Right there.

Look at what you said.

There is no empirical evidence; therefore, we cannot prove it. The lack of empirical evidence doesn't disprove or prove. And, there is no way to test the evidence and get definitive proof.

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29-02-2012, 01:19 PM (This post was last modified: 29-02-2012 01:21 PM by kineo.)
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(29-02-2012 01:12 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  "... Jeremy is arguing that one cannot %100 prove the existence of God based on empirical evidence."

This just isn't correct.
We CAN prove the existence of god IF there were any empirical evidence to support it!
Please remember what empirical means and what empirical evidence is.
The word empirical denotes information acquired by means of observation or experimentation.

Empirical research is a way of gaining knowledge by means of direct and indirect observation or experience. Empirical evidence (the record of one's direct observations or experiences) can be analyzed quantitatively or qualitatively. Through quantifying the evidence or making sense of it in qualitative form, a researcher can answer empirical questions,(like, is this god?) which should be clearly defined and answerable with the evidence collected (usually called data).

A central concept in modern science and the scientific method is that all evidence must be empirical, or empirically based, that is, dependent on evidence or consequences that are observable by the senses.

I agree with you on this. God could make it clearly known, without a shadow of doubt.

But, that's not the point, according to KC's religion. He could, but he doesn't because faith is more important than knowing. But, I think it's complete bunk that faith is a priority over logic and reasoning.
(29-02-2012 01:16 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(29-02-2012 01:12 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  "... Jeremy is arguing that one cannot %100 prove the existence of God based on empirical evidence."

This just isn't correct.
We CAN prove the existence of god IF there were any empirical evidence to support it!

Stop there.

Right there.

Look at what you said.

There is no empirical evidence; therefore, we cannot prove it. The lack of empirical evidence doesn't disprove or prove. And, there is no way to test the evidence and get definitive proof.

That doesn't make what TT said any less true. It still remains that God COULD give us empirical evidence, but he does not.
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29-02-2012, 01:24 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(29-02-2012 01:16 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(29-02-2012 01:12 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  "... Jeremy is arguing that one cannot %100 prove the existence of God based on empirical evidence."

This just isn't correct.
We CAN prove the existence of god IF there were any empirical evidence to support it!

Stop there.

Right there.

Look at what you said.

There is no empirical evidence; therefore, we cannot prove it. The lack of empirical evidence doesn't disprove or prove. And, there is no way to test the evidence and get definitive proof.

Sir. What I am saying is that IF there WAS any empirical evidence, we COULD use it effectively to prove gods existence.

It's all in your head, because there is no other place it could be.
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29-02-2012, 01:54 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
(29-02-2012 01:24 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  
(29-02-2012 01:16 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(29-02-2012 01:12 PM)TalladegaTom Wrote:  "... Jeremy is arguing that one cannot %100 prove the existence of God based on empirical evidence."

This just isn't correct.
We CAN prove the existence of god IF there were any empirical evidence to support it!

Stop there.

Right there.

Look at what you said.

There is no empirical evidence; therefore, we cannot prove it. The lack of empirical evidence doesn't disprove or prove. And, there is no way to test the evidence and get definitive proof.

Sir. What I am saying is that IF there WAS any empirical evidence, we COULD use it effectively to prove gods existence.

So, you're saying "one cannot %100 prove the existence of God based on empirical evidence"...

...because there is none.

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29-02-2012, 02:06 PM
RE: Theistic Absolutism: A question I'm asking Christians.
Let's chalk this one up to a mis communication. Seems like Tom was trying to say the same thing KC was trying to say. Both just read wrong. No empirical evidence, gotcha, move along people.

also that pastor is a dick.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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