Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
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22-05-2014, 02:18 AM (This post was last modified: 22-05-2014 03:25 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
(22-05-2014 01:34 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  
(21-05-2014 05:09 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFw5TsAi1Mk

Second comment chain, by "Daniel Date". Debunk plz, this is disturbing.

Had a quick look.

Yes the global economic system is currently unsustainable. It always was but now we're quickly reaching our limits. I ran a discussion forum about this very subject for three years and looked at every aspect of it.

The answer lays in science, not in a theistic monarchy. With the former we have a chance at maintaining a quality of life with minimal die-off, or perhaps even no die-off at all if we use the remaining cheap energy resources available to us into adapting now rather than filling our landfill sites with cheap Chinese kettles.

Without a doubt, with the latter we'll have an even larger decline in global population as well as a massive drop in living standards for all. This is because the economy is reliant upon finite fossil fuels which also pollute. What Daniel Dates is suggesting is buying more time using an extreme authoritarian regime. That just kicks the can down the road and does not change the fact that the energy source is still finite. It will in fact make the problem worse because innovation will be stifled in such a system and ways of reducing dependency on fossil fuels will not be developed.

A useful rule of thumb is that all arguments about efficiency fail with regard to this problem because of Jevon's paradox. If you make a more efficient energy then this means that you can do more for less money and ultimately end up using up more energy. So imagine you owned a company to haul stuff up on rockets into space. The current cost of doing this is tremendous because of the energy requirements to get out of Earth's gravity well. Say you developed a new propulsion system that massively reduced the cost of each flight. You save fuel for each flight. You reduce your prices and get more customers so end up making more flights than you would before. Ultimately more energy gets used in the long run.

This puts into even greater contrast how myopic our economic policies really are. It's not like we live in a Thermodynamic closed system, as the Sun itself is constantly dumping energy into the system. We have a massive controlled fusion reaction that supplies more power than we could ever need, but we'd rather dig up the buried remains of ancient forests and pollute our planet instead.

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22-05-2014, 07:35 AM
RE: Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
(22-05-2014 02:18 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 01:34 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Had a quick look.

Yes the global economic system is currently unsustainable. It always was but now we're quickly reaching our limits. I ran a discussion forum about this very subject for three years and looked at every aspect of it.

The answer lays in science, not in a theistic monarchy. With the former we have a chance at maintaining a quality of life with minimal die-off, or perhaps even no die-off at all if we use the remaining cheap energy resources available to us into adapting now rather than filling our landfill sites with cheap Chinese kettles.

Without a doubt, with the latter we'll have an even larger decline in global population as well as a massive drop in living standards for all. This is because the economy is reliant upon finite fossil fuels which also pollute. What Daniel Dates is suggesting is buying more time using an extreme authoritarian regime. That just kicks the can down the road and does not change the fact that the energy source is still finite. It will in fact make the problem worse because innovation will be stifled in such a system and ways of reducing dependency on fossil fuels will not be developed.

A useful rule of thumb is that all arguments about efficiency fail with regard to this problem because of Jevon's paradox. If you make a more efficient energy then this means that you can do more for less money and ultimately end up using up more energy. So imagine you owned a company to haul stuff up on rockets into space. The current cost of doing this is tremendous because of the energy requirements to get out of Earth's gravity well. Say you developed a new propulsion system that massively reduced the cost of each flight. You save fuel for each flight. You reduce your prices and get more customers so end up making more flights than you would before. Ultimately more energy gets used in the long run.

This puts into even greater contrast how myopic our economic policies really are. It's not like we live in a Thermodynamic closed system, as the Sun itself is constantly dumping energy into the system. We have a massive controlled fusion reaction that supplies more power than we could ever need, but we'd rather dig up the buried remains of ancient forests and pollute our planet instead.

..and only because this "we" is the people who profit greatly from it, and who have exerted great control over governments and industry to maintain this untenable status quo.

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22-05-2014, 08:14 AM
RE: Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
(22-05-2014 07:35 AM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 02:18 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  This puts into even greater contrast how myopic our economic policies really are. It's not like we live in a Thermodynamic closed system, as the Sun itself is constantly dumping energy into the system. We have a massive controlled fusion reaction that supplies more power than we could ever need, but we'd rather dig up the buried remains of ancient forests and pollute our planet instead.

..and only because this "we" is the people who profit greatly from it, and who have exerted great control over governments and industry to maintain this untenable status quo.

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22-05-2014, 08:25 AM
RE: Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
(22-05-2014 02:18 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 01:34 AM)Mathilda Wrote:  Had a quick look.

Yes the global economic system is currently unsustainable. It always was but now we're quickly reaching our limits. I ran a discussion forum about this very subject for three years and looked at every aspect of it.

The answer lays in science, not in a theistic monarchy. With the former we have a chance at maintaining a quality of life with minimal die-off, or perhaps even no die-off at all if we use the remaining cheap energy resources available to us into adapting now rather than filling our landfill sites with cheap Chinese kettles.

Without a doubt, with the latter we'll have an even larger decline in global population as well as a massive drop in living standards for all. This is because the economy is reliant upon finite fossil fuels which also pollute. What Daniel Dates is suggesting is buying more time using an extreme authoritarian regime. That just kicks the can down the road and does not change the fact that the energy source is still finite. It will in fact make the problem worse because innovation will be stifled in such a system and ways of reducing dependency on fossil fuels will not be developed.

A useful rule of thumb is that all arguments about efficiency fail with regard to this problem because of Jevon's paradox. If you make a more efficient energy then this means that you can do more for less money and ultimately end up using up more energy. So imagine you owned a company to haul stuff up on rockets into space. The current cost of doing this is tremendous because of the energy requirements to get out of Earth's gravity well. Say you developed a new propulsion system that massively reduced the cost of each flight. You save fuel for each flight. You reduce your prices and get more customers so end up making more flights than you would before. Ultimately more energy gets used in the long run.

This puts into even greater contrast how myopic our economic policies really are. It's not like we live in a Thermodynamic closed system, as the Sun itself is constantly dumping energy into the system. We have a massive controlled fusion reaction that supplies more power than we could ever need, but we'd rather dig up the buried remains of ancient forests and pollute our planet instead.

I make a pretty good living from "digging up dead forests." So do many. Is it shitty? Sure but I gotta eat.
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22-05-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
(22-05-2014 08:25 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 02:18 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  This puts into even greater contrast how myopic our economic policies really are. It's not like we live in a Thermodynamic closed system, as the Sun itself is constantly dumping energy into the system. We have a massive controlled fusion reaction that supplies more power than we could ever need, but we'd rather dig up the buried remains of ancient forests and pollute our planet instead.

I make a pretty good living from "digging up dead forests." So do many. Is it shitty? Sure but I gotta eat.

Yeah, and somebody has to get paid to execute people on death row; doesn't mean that I don't oppose capital punishment. My father is employed in the oil industry, but we'd all be better off if we were pursuing renewable energy over pouring billions of gallons of water and toxic chemicals into the ground to feed our energy consumption habits. It's a job, we all gotta eat; but we'd also all be better off if my father could make ends meet tending solar panels instead of fracking.

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22-05-2014, 01:35 PM
RE: Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
(22-05-2014 08:40 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 08:25 AM)Drunkin Druid Wrote:  I make a pretty good living from "digging up dead forests." So do many. Is it shitty? Sure but I gotta eat.

Yeah, and somebody has to get paid to execute people on death row; doesn't mean that I don't oppose capital punishment. My father is employed in the oil industry, but we'd all be better off if we were pursuing renewable energy over pouring billions of gallons of water and toxic chemicals into the ground to feed our energy consumption habits. It's a job, we all gotta eat; but we'd also all be better off if my father could make ends meet tending solar panels instead of fracking.
You father and I won't get paid shit tending solar panels. All I know is that I grew up poor as hell and I'm gettin my piece.
I do care for the environment but I also care about not being poor.
But can I ask; do you drive a car? Use electricity? Brush your teeth? Engage in the many activities taken for granted that could not exist without oil? Or have you cut oil consumption compleatly out of your life?
Not too long ago one of my favourite musicians Neil Young was here in Alberta railing against the oil sands. He had a show and during that time he kept all his tour busses running. But it's ok for him to rail against oil because he don't fly in planes...
He certainly don't have to worry about his mortgage or retirement.
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22-05-2014, 01:40 PM
RE: Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
Don't get me wrong. I think there must be better ways but I'm not convinced that solar is the answer. I'm pretty sure that making those panels cause a good deal of pollution as well. I can say for sure that solar isn't going to eliminate the need for oil anyway. Oil is practically in everything.
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22-05-2014, 01:44 PM
RE: Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
I also agree that we need to get off our dependence on oil but we cannot do that at the expense of people's livelihoods. It goes so deep that if you eliminate oil production everything else collapses.
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22-05-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
(21-05-2014 11:42 PM)Charis Wrote:  It's not just a 3rd world idea. There are Christian "Dominionists" who want a "theocracy," though it likely won't be successful anywhere BUT in a 3rd world country.

I don't know, Regan almost did it. It won't be successful unless they can kill people. The middle east was once a 1st world place but religion still took over that.

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22-05-2014, 01:57 PM
RE: Theistic Monarchy is the only viable option?
Sorry for the derailment folks.... As you were.
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