Theists, I want your best reasoning
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17-12-2014, 03:18 PM
RE: Theists, I want your best reasoning
(16-12-2014 03:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 03:42 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  I believe Jesus died for everyone. He bled and died for people who mocked Him from those who crucified Him to people who mock Him at TTA.

Doesn't that lesson the sacrifice?

I mean, if someone can deny His sacrifice, it's not a very powerful sacrifice, right? Especially from a God that is all powerful... and can't be denied.

How can anyone reject God's sacrifice if it was given to them by the omnipotent, omniscient Godhead?

If that can be denied... doesn't that make Him not omnipotent? Isn't He now subjugated by the whims of a human?

For the sacrifice to be ultimate, perfect, and worthy, shouldn't it be something that can't be denied? Because, again... if denied... how is it ultimate, worthy, and perfect?

I believe in unlimited-limited atonement (sufficient for all/exclusive for some).

But there are things the Lord desires above sacrifices:

But Samuel replied: "Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams. - 1 Samuel 15:22

The sacrifice is also a payment for a debt. We can choose gratitude for payment made or resent the payment made. Something similar - gratitude or resentment - often occurs upon the execution of a last will and testament from the beneficiaries. Jesus paid for our debt of sin, some appreciate it, some deny it/resent it.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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17-12-2014, 03:20 PM
RE: Theists, I want your best reasoning
(16-12-2014 07:36 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Atheism is the logical negation of theism (as in "not theist").

Right. And I'm not interested in logically negating theism, or believing in theist assertions.

Technically, your definition thing is correct.

In the real world beyond the dictionary, there are people who believe in atheism to one degree or another, people who believe in theism to one degree or another, and people who don't care about any of it.

I'm none of the above.

Sorry, nobody gets to call me an atheist or theist unless I agree to it and describe myself that way, and I don't. Nobody gets to rope me on to their team with little definition games. :-)
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17-12-2014, 03:28 PM
RE: Theists, I want your best reasoning
(17-12-2014 03:20 PM)Baba Bozo Wrote:  Sorry, nobody gets to call me an atheist or theist unless I agree to it and describe myself that way, and I don't. Nobody gets to rope me on to their team with little definition games. :-)

Whoop de doo Smile

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-12-2014, 03:42 PM
RE: Theists, I want your best reasoning
(17-12-2014 03:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(16-12-2014 03:57 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Doesn't that lesson the sacrifice?

I mean, if someone can deny His sacrifice, it's not a very powerful sacrifice, right? Especially from a God that is all powerful... and can't be denied.

How can anyone reject God's sacrifice if it was given to them by the omnipotent, omniscient Godhead?

If that can be denied... doesn't that make Him not omnipotent? Isn't He now subjugated by the whims of a human?

For the sacrifice to be ultimate, perfect, and worthy, shouldn't it be something that can't be denied? Because, again... if denied... how is it ultimate, worthy, and perfect?

I believe in unlimited-limited atonement (sufficient for all/exclusive for some).

But there are things the Lord desires above sacrifices:

But Samuel replied: "Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams. - 1 Samuel 15:22

The sacrifice is also a payment for a debt. We can choose gratitude for payment made or resent the payment made. Something similar - gratitude or resentment - often occurs upon the execution of a last will and testament from the beneficiaries. Jesus paid for our debt of sin, some appreciate it, some deny it/resent it.

That answers 0% of my question(s).

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22-12-2014, 01:31 PM
RE: Theists, I want your best reasoning
(17-12-2014 03:42 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(17-12-2014 03:18 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  But there are things the Lord desires above sacrifices:

But Samuel replied: "Does the LORD delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed is better than the fat of rams. - 1 Samuel 15:22

The sacrifice is also a payment for a debt. We can choose gratitude for payment made or resent the payment made. Something similar - gratitude or resentment - often occurs upon the execution of a last will and testament from the beneficiaries. Jesus paid for our debt of sin, some appreciate it, some deny it/resent it.

That answers 0% of my question(s).

I apologize. God sacrificed Jesus unto God, yes? The Bible says God was satisfied regarding this sacrifice.

The sacrifice is also a substitute or stand in. Free will says you can skip it, it sounds like you are saying the sovereignty of God precludes skipping it and exercising a free will choice. I would respectfully disagree.

I'm told atheists on forums like TTA are bitter and angry. If you are not, your posts to me will be respectful, insightful and thoughtful. Prove me wrong by your adherence to decent behavior.
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22-12-2014, 01:34 PM
RE: Theists, I want your best reasoning
(22-12-2014 01:31 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(17-12-2014 03:42 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  That answers 0% of my question(s).

I apologize. God sacrificed Jesus unto God, yes? The Bible says God was satisfied regarding this sacrifice.

The sacrifice is also a substitute or stand in. Free will says you can skip it, it sounds like you are saying the sovereignty of God precludes skipping it and exercising a free will choice. I would respectfully disagree.

That's actually the opposite of what I said.

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22-12-2014, 03:49 PM
RE: Theists, I want your best reasoning
(03-12-2014 07:02 PM)microterf Wrote:  I see a lot of Christians that come on here and make comment on the threads, I have yet to see one of them make a good point that didn't have an obvious rebuttal, and they are always attacking other views. I would like to hear the best argument that you can give for why YOU believe. You've obviously read through a lot of the same stuff the rest of us have, yet somehow still believe. Sell me with your best argument.

Is it possible that you could be wrong about everything you think you know?

Truth seeker.
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22-12-2014, 04:01 PM
RE: Theists, I want your best reasoning
^You do realise that argument is exactly as compelling (not very) when attacking any position right?

God exists: Is it possible that you could be wrong about everything you think you know?

I like strawberry icecream: Is it possible that you could be wrong about everything you think you know?

I am not a chocolate flavoured bowl of cereal: Is it possible that you could be wrong about everything you think you know?

Soulless mutants of muscle and intent. There are billions of us; hardy, smart and dangerous. Shaped by millions of years of death. We are the definitive alpha predator. We build monsters of fire and stone. We bottled the sun. We nailed our god to a stick.

In man's struggle against the world, bet on the man.
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22-12-2014, 05:08 PM
RE: Theists, I want your best reasoning
(22-12-2014 03:49 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  
(03-12-2014 07:02 PM)microterf Wrote:  I see a lot of Christians that come on here and make comment on the threads, I have yet to see one of them make a good point that didn't have an obvious rebuttal, and they are always attacking other views. I would like to hear the best argument that you can give for why YOU believe. You've obviously read through a lot of the same stuff the rest of us have, yet somehow still believe. Sell me with your best argument.

Is it possible that you could be wrong about everything you think you know?

No, you absolutely are a cunt so there is one thing I know right there. Now fuck off.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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22-12-2014, 09:48 PM
RE: Theists, I want your best reasoning
(22-12-2014 05:08 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  
(22-12-2014 03:49 PM)diddo97 Wrote:  Is it possible that you could be wrong about everything you think you know?

No, you absolutely are a cunt so there is one thing I know right there. Now fuck off.

No response? I didn't think so... No, please do refute my position, it is incredibly depressing. If you can. Drinking Beverage

Truth seeker.
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