Theists and BS assumptions about science
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27-04-2016, 01:37 PM
RE: Theists and BS assumptions about science
(27-04-2016 01:23 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(27-04-2016 12:47 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "Is it important for you hold only true beliefs?"

I have never met anyone that considers that unimportant. Do you think a belief in truth is a distinctly "atheist" opinion? If so, you're dumber than you appear.

"Is it important for you to hold rational views, to think objectively, to only believe in solid scientifically based conclusions? Is it important for you not to be deluded, or ignorant?"

My understanding of science and my views on rational and logical beliefs, are not my atheism. How many times do people need to tell you this? My atheism is a RESULT of my views and opinions. It is a LACK OF BELIEF IN A GOD(S). It is no more defining than that. My scientific views are best described by the label "scientist." My beliefs in rationality and logic are best described with the label "realist" or "skeptic."

YOU assigning qualities to "atheism" or "atheist" based on your biased and ignorant observations does NOT mean that the generalizations you make about atheists, or scientists or atheists who are scientists, are correct. You have NEVER provided even a shred of evidence or data to support your bullshit.

YOU continue to make generalizations about atheists and atheism, and science and scientists that you have yet to:
1) provide evidence for
2) retract because it's bullshit

Pointing out that you see your atheism as a result of being rational and logical, etc... doesn't negate the importance that being an atheist has for you. You're just pointing out why it's important to you, establishing the links. Undermining your atheism, would bring into question these very things that are important to you.

The result of truly being rational and logical is atheism, the result of being irrational and illogical is theism. It's important to see yourself as rational and logical, and not to see yourself as those that are illogical and irrational, which you already associate with theism. A shift now from atheism to theism, likely wouldn't be just a shift in a single belief, but a fundamental shift in who you are, in your sense of self. A man who looks like you sitting in the pews, weeping singing hymns, is not someone you would recognize as yourself.

When you seek to be around likeminded individuals, those that you can relate to, you likely seek that solidarity with other atheists, who you share a variety of values with, and a sense of how they perceive the world around them, which you likely identify with far better than most theists.

"Pointing out that you see your atheism as a result of being rational and logical, etc... doesn't negate the importance that being an atheist has for you. "

You don't know what the importance of "being an atheist" is for me, but you presume it must be important because I use the term. YOUR assumption is not valid.

"You're just pointing out why it's important to you, establishing the links."

Holy fuck, no. I'm pointing out why the term is NOT important. YOU try to assign it importance.

"Undermining your atheism, would bring into question these very things that are important to you. "

No. There is nothing that undermines atheism. Atheism is a lack of a belief. There is only support (evidence/logic) for theism that would invalidate the position of atheism.

"The result of truly being rational and logical is atheism, the result of being irrational and illogical is theism. It's important to see yourself as rational and logical, and not to see yourself as those that are illogical and irrational, which you already associate with theism."

You keep assuming to know my opinions about other people and other people's beliefs. YOUR assumptions are not valid.

"A shift now from atheism to theism, likely wouldn't be just a shift in a single belief, but a fundamental shift in who you are, in your sense of self."

That is because YOU assign significance to theism. If THEISM were my position and it were important to me, it would alter my identity. But if it were NOT IMPORTANT to me, it would NOT alter my identity. My identity is NOT tied to my atheism. No matter how many times you try to do that with me or other atheists. YOU don't know how they identify themselves or what importance they would place in the label "atheist." Just because you assign significance to "theist," does not mean that others assign significance to "atheist" by default. That is YOUR assumption that you have not validated.

"A man who looks like you sitting in the pews, weeping singing hymns, is not someone you would recognize as yourself. "

YOU don't know me or my past. I (the literal ME) has done that very thing. That was ME as much as the ME who sits here now. My identity is not tied to my atheism. My identity at one time was tied to my theism. This may come as a shock to you, but even at one time, the theist version of myself, didn't assign ANY IMPORTANCE to my theistic beliefs in my self-identity. Just because YOU do, does not mean others do by default. Just because it would fundamentally fuck your world and your identity up if you stopped believing in a god, does not mean it would fuck everyone else's world up who is a theist. Nor does the opposite necessarily hold true that someone's self-identify would be in chaos if they were to go from atheist to theist. These are generalizations you make by extrapolating from yourself, to everyone else. What is true for you, is NOT true for everyone else by default.

"When you seek to be around likeminded individuals, those that you can relate to, you likely seek that solidarity with other atheists, who you share a variety of values with, and a sense of how they perceive the world around them, which you likely identify with far better than most theists."

No. There are MANY atheists with whom I do not agree and do not share values with, and many theists with whom I do. You are trying in vain to collapse atheists into a single dimension, and you are failing miserably. Why? Because humans are rarely so simple and uni-dimensional. Just because you are a simple-minded human, does not mean the rest of us are.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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27-04-2016, 01:57 PM
RE: Theists and BS assumptions about science
(27-04-2016 01:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  YOU don't know me or my past. I (the literal ME) has done that very thing. That was ME as much as the ME who sits here now.

When you confuse identity here with "the literal me", you lost the plot, lol.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_(social_science)

"In psychology, sociology, anthropology and philosophy, identity is the conception, qualities, beliefs, and expressions that make a person (self-identity) or group (such as national identity and cultural identity) different from others."

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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27-04-2016, 01:59 PM
RE: Theists and BS assumptions about science
(27-04-2016 01:57 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(27-04-2016 01:37 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  YOU don't know me or my past. I (the literal ME) has done that very thing. That was ME as much as the ME who sits here now.

When you confuse identity here with "the literal me", you lost the plot, lol.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Identity_(social_science)

"In psychology, sociology, anthropology and philosophy, identity is the conception, qualities, beliefs, and expressions that make a person (self-identity) or group (such as national identity and cultural identity) different from others."

Quoting wikipedia psychology because you don't understand the words I write, is hilariously ironic.

the literal me = physical me and mental me (which includes my identity)

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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27-04-2016, 02:02 PM
RE: Theists and BS assumptions about science
Here, let's ask a very simple question in a few different ways.

Do you know who someone is, or what they associate with their individual identify, if your only knowledge of them is whether they are theist or atheist?

Do you know who someone is, or what they associate with their individual identify, if your only knowledge of them is whether they are a scientist or not a scientist?

Do you know who someone is, or what they associate with their individual identify, if your only knowledge of them is whether they are a baseball player or not a baseball player?




(let's see how arrogantly presumptuous you are in trying to draw generalizations about people and groups based on your own biases)

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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27-04-2016, 02:02 PM
RE: Theists and BS assumptions about science
It's worth noting not everyone has cares for worldviews and identities in their defining labels.

Not everyone who has a political view is going to take insults to that political view personally. There are those who make that connection as an extension of themselves. But that's not even something that classifies all the uses of a language or feeling when terminology comes out in labels.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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27-04-2016, 02:14 PM (This post was last modified: 27-04-2016 02:17 PM by Tomasia.)
RE: Theists and BS assumptions about science
(27-04-2016 01:59 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Quoting wikipedia psychology because you don't understand the words I write, is hilariously ironic.

the literal me = physical me and mental me (which includes my identity)


When you respond to comments regarding the topic of identity, with the " That was ME as much as the ME who sits here now", if that is not a misunderstanding of what identity means, then it's just you raising objections, to a point I never made, as if I was talking about physical differences. You clearly don't identify with that person anymore, at the time perhaps, but not anymore.

If you see your atheism as not a part of your identity, can you elaborate on why your here, on an atheists forum?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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27-04-2016, 02:19 PM
RE: Theists and BS assumptions about science
(27-04-2016 02:14 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(27-04-2016 01:59 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  Quoting wikipedia psychology because you don't understand the words I write, is hilariously ironic.

the literal me = physical me and mental me (which includes my identity)


When you respond to comments regarding the topic of identity, with the " That was ME as much as the ME who sits here now", if that is not a misunderstanding of what identity means, then it's just you raising objections, to a point I never made, as if I was talking about physical differences. You clearly don't identify with that person anymore, at the time perhaps, but not anymore.

If you see your atheism as not a part of your identity, can you elaborate on why your here, on an atheists forum?

Now your assertion is that I don't understand myself as well as you understand me? Laugh out load

Yep, that arrogance is in full swing.

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27-04-2016, 02:20 PM
RE: Theists and BS assumptions about science
"If you see your atheism as not a part of your identity, can you elaborate on why your here, on an atheists forum?"

Because this forum affords an opportunity to discuss religion, politics, and science with the non-religious.

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
-Rick
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27-04-2016, 02:21 PM
RE: Theists and BS assumptions about science
"If you see your atheism as not a part of your identity, can you elaborate on why your here, on an atheists forum?"

Why are you here?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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27-04-2016, 02:29 PM
RE: Theists and BS assumptions about science
(27-04-2016 02:20 PM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  "If you see your atheism as not a part of your identity, can you elaborate on why your here, on an atheists forum?"

Because this forum affords an opportunity to discuss religion, politics, and science with the non-religious.

Why do you want to discuss these topics with the non-religious?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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