Theists must think we're complete morons
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16-10-2015, 11:15 PM
Theists must think we're complete morons
I think one of my favorite (in the "that's so awful it's astounding") theist arguments is the "You just want to sin" argument.

Aside from the obvious complete denial of someone's own words, and the fact that Christianity is set up in such a way that we can sin all we want and then just go "Hey, sorry" and be forgiven, it begs one very important question; just how stupid to theists think we are?

"Don't do this list of things under these circumstances for roughly seventy years, and recieve complete and total bliss for literally forever, which makes said seventy years look like a fraction of a blink of an eye. Do this list of things under these circumstances and be sent to unimaginable torture for literally forever." Who the hell picks the second option on that? Who on Earth would seriously willingly pick eternal pain instead of eternal happiness, all for just the tiniest amount of time doing some specific things that presumably pale in comparison to said eternal happiness?

I know we like to joke around about how oh yeah bacon is totally worth eternal torture but we only say that because we're joking and we know the threat doesn't actually exist anyway. It's like a kid coming up to us and threatening to sic his pet t-rex on us if we don't give him our toy car. Sure we're going to joke about that, it's completely ridiculous, but if there was any actual chance he actually had a t-rex at his beck and call the kid would get the toy, it's not worth it. You'd need to be a total moron to pick your brief, so-so happiness over much, much longer, much, much better happiness. Except the Christian's threat makes a t-rex look like a pet mouse lemur.

(For the record, this is also a problem I have with any and all "deal with the devil" storylines in anything. Nothing you're trading for is worth it, why the hell are you doing it? )

If anything, I'd think "sinning" as an atheist would be a pretty good indicator you're sincere when you say you don't believe, cause no one in their right mind would through away billions of trillions of millenia of heavily bliss just for seventy years of Earthly pleasures.

Then again, we're denying that so totally obviously obvious presense of gawd, so maybe they think us being complete idiots isn't a baseless idea.

And yeah, I know Christian arguments never make sense, this is just ranting on a specific gripe for me.

Popcorn I put more thought into fiction than theists put into reality.
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16-10-2015, 11:17 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
It's because it's a notion of thinking they are relating to some angst feeling they had as a teenager when they "acted out." That's the mindset of the, oh you're angry at god or just want to sin.

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16-10-2015, 11:49 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(16-10-2015 11:15 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  I think one of my favorite (in the "that's so awful it's astounding") theist arguments is the "You just want to sin" argument.

Well, I certainly do.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
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17-10-2015, 06:05 AM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
Maybe they're just projecting, they want to do "sinful" things but their silly book says not to, so they don't.

It's pretty dumb though, being a Christian doesn't forbid you from sinning, it gives you a license to do it. All you have to do is make a magic incantation afterwards and be absolved of anything you do.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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17-10-2015, 07:30 AM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
sins.... insignificant stuff we all do, only people are told they are very bad because blind followers are needed to ensure a steady flow of ka-ching
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17-10-2015, 07:33 AM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(16-10-2015 11:15 PM)CleverUsername Wrote:  I think one of my favorite (in the "that's so awful it's astounding") theist arguments is the "You just want to sin" argument.

Aside from the obvious complete denial of someone's own words, and the fact that Christianity is set up in such a way that we can sin all we want and then just go "Hey, sorry" and be forgiven, it begs one very important question; just how stupid to theists think we are?

"Don't do this list of things under these circumstances for roughly seventy years, and recieve complete and total bliss for literally forever, which makes said seventy years look like a fraction of a blink of an eye. Do this list of things under these circumstances and be sent to unimaginable torture for literally forever." Who the hell picks the second option on that? Who on Earth would seriously willingly pick eternal pain instead of eternal happiness, all for just the tiniest amount of time doing some specific things that presumably pale in comparison to said eternal happiness?

I know we like to joke around about how oh yeah bacon is totally worth eternal torture but we only say that because we're joking and we know the threat doesn't actually exist anyway. It's like a kid coming up to us and threatening to sic his pet t-rex on us if we don't give him our toy car. Sure we're going to joke about that, it's completely ridiculous, but if there was any actual chance he actually had a t-rex at his beck and call the kid would get the toy, it's not worth it. You'd need to be a total moron to pick your brief, so-so happiness over much, much longer, much, much better happiness. Except the Christian's threat makes a t-rex look like a pet mouse lemur.

(For the record, this is also a problem I have with any and all "deal with the devil" storylines in anything. Nothing you're trading for is worth it, why the hell are you doing it? )

If anything, I'd think "sinning" as an atheist would be a pretty good indicator you're sincere when you say you don't believe, cause no one in their right mind would through away billions of trillions of millenia of heavily bliss just for seventy years of Earthly pleasures.

Then again, we're denying that so totally obviously obvious presense of gawd, so maybe they think us being complete idiots isn't a baseless idea.

And yeah, I know Christian arguments never make sense, this is just ranting on a specific gripe for me.

It's a cheap, sleazy debate tactic to take the focus off of their delusional worldview. It's a rationalization to cover the fact that they are completely intellectually bankrupt. It is actually a sign that they are on the ropes. It's time to go for the knockout punch.

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17-10-2015, 07:49 AM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(17-10-2015 07:30 AM)Ace Wrote:  sins.... insignificant stuff we all do, only people are told they are very bad because blind followers are needed to ensure a steady flow of ka-ching

Sins --- What other people think *you* should not do.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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17-10-2015, 08:06 AM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
It's not because they think we're stupid. My father knows I have a "genius" IQ, yet he recently pulled that very argument, to my face, when he came to visit a couple of months ago.

Of course, I explained quickly that it was because I found his Biblical morality-concepts to be immoral and repugnant, and that I would consider it beneath me to obey the commands of his deity.

He didn't respond, and hasn't brought it up since. We actually had a pretty good weekend together, after he dropped it.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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17-10-2015, 08:59 AM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
How does an atheist sin? What is right and what is wrong?
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17-10-2015, 09:06 AM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2015 09:28 AM by jennybee.)
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
I don't really get the you just want to sin thing either. Do I want to masturbate and enjoy premarital sex with a boyfriend--um yeah I do. I am sure a lot of Christians want to enjoy premarital sex and masturbate as well--but they can't because of their magic book. I know some Christians who can't even enjoy married sex because of church brainwashing. I actually had a church group where the leader of the group (who was a pastor) said you shouldn't masturbate at all--even if you are married--even if you are in the same room as your husband and he is watching you and enjoying it. That is not allowed--only he can touch you--you can't touch yourself. How fucked up is that???

I have had religious people and pastors tell me yoga is a sin, doing anything more than kissing before marriage is a sin, watching certain tv shows, movies, listening to certain music---and even too much coffee is a sin! If everything you do is a sin--then yes, I want to sin freely if sinning freely means enjoying my life and experiencing all the wonderful things life has to offer.

I'm with RS about the "morality" in the Bible. If the Bible was a wonderful book filled with peace, love, and happiness and good learning tools on how to live a life well-lived, then maybe I would consider it--if I decided to go back into delusion. If God was a person who was doing half the shit he did in the Bible, most Christians would say wow, what a horrible, vile person. But since God is magical and he does do some good shit--well let's just focus on that and pretend the bad stuff doesn't count anymore 'cause Jesus. And my favorite Christian response:

"Well, thoooose people that God did all of those horrible things to--well, they deserved it for choosing to disobey God and not loving Him enough."

Really?? God is love and yet acts like a monster (via famine, rape, smiting, illness etc.) to people who actively disobey and don't love him enough? Niiiice God.

"Let the waters settle and you will see the moon and stars mirrored in your own being." -Rumi
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