Theists must think we're complete morons
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17-10-2015, 01:20 PM (This post was last modified: 17-10-2015 01:26 PM by TheMrBillShow.)
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(17-10-2015 11:21 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I heard someone refer to the "golden rule". I am sure you know that that was a teaching of Jesus Christ. To "do unto others what you would have done unto you". That in itself is a standard of ethics that even atheist tend to appreciate. Almost every nation has laws that are fundamentally built around religious codes of ethics. Doesn't mater if it is Christians, Muslim, jewish, ect.

You do know that a "reciprocity ethic" has developed in virtually ever culture across all times and places, right? It tends to develop irrespective of religion. Given that, might there be a deeper principle transcending religious belief at work here?

Religion takes its ethics from humanity, not the other way around.

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17-10-2015, 01:21 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(17-10-2015 10:58 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  You are missing the point that I am trying to make? How are atheist different from theist when it comes to the inability determine what is right and what is wrong? If there is no God or heaven or hell, and we are all inevitably meeting the same fate no mater how we live our lives then what is the point? Why live a "good life"? Why not just do whatever you want when you want? Who cares if it harms others if we will eventually cease to exist anyway?

One practical reason is that doing whatever you want and not caring if you harm others will likely shorten your lifespan by a considerable amount.

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17-10-2015, 01:23 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(17-10-2015 11:21 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I heard someone refer to the "golden rule". I am sure you know that that was a teaching of Jesus Christ. To "do unto others what you would have done unto you". That in itself is a standard of ethics that even atheist tend to appreciate. Almost every nation has laws that are fundamentally built around religious codes of ethics. Doesn't mater if it is Christians, Muslim, jewish, ect.

The golden rule predates Jesus by many centuries.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-10-2015, 01:41 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(17-10-2015 01:03 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  
(17-10-2015 11:05 AM)true scotsman Wrote:  I am able to tell what's right from what is wrong.

No. Right and wrong don't really exist. The only thing you are able to "tell" is what you prefer.

Right and wrong are not determined by what I prefer. Right and wrong don't exist in the way that a rock or a tree exist as concretes. That is because they are conceptual in nature. Like all knowledge, correspondence with reality is what make them true or false. If we arrive at these principles by an objective process then they are objectively true. To be objective they must adhere to the primacy of existence principle. Now I agree that most people do not adhere to the primacy of existence or even know what it is, but right and wrong will go on being right or wrong regardless of what people prefer.

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17-10-2015, 01:51 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
The only truth about morality is that it doesn't exist. There are no moral truths.



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17-10-2015, 01:54 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(17-10-2015 11:21 AM)jason_delisle Wrote:  I heard someone refer to the "golden rule". I am sure you know that that was a teaching of Jesus Christ. To "do unto others what you would have done unto you". That in itself is a standard of ethics that even atheist tend to appreciate. Almost every nation has laws that are fundamentally built around religious codes of ethics. Doesn't mater if it is Christians, Muslim, jewish, ect.

(17-10-2015 01:20 PM)TheMrBillShow Wrote:  You do know that a "reciprocity ethic" has developed in virtually ever culture across all times and places, right? It tends to develop irrespective of religion. Given that, might there be a deeper principle transcending religious belief at work here?

Religion takes its ethics from humanity, not the other way around.

(17-10-2015 01:23 PM)Chas Wrote:  The golden rule predates Jesus by many centuries.

This is not the first Christian here to think that the principle of reciprocity originated with Jesus. They are egregiously uninformed.

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17-10-2015, 01:59 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
Those are actually very interesting points and they make sense. I can't argue with that logic. Which leads me to a very legitimate question (not playing devil's advocate I am for real this time) how did some of these values arise that are completely contradictory to human nature.... revenge, sexual immorality, greed, ect..?
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17-10-2015, 02:01 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(17-10-2015 01:51 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  The only truth about morality is that it doesn't exist. There are no moral truths.f




Is your statement objectively true?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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17-10-2015, 02:08 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(17-10-2015 01:59 PM)jason_delisle Wrote:  Those are actually very interesting points and they make sense. I can't argue with that logic. Which leads me to a very legitimate question (not playing devil's advocate I am for real this time) how did some of these values arise that are completely contradictory to human nature.... revenge, sexual immorality, greed, ect..?

'Cause human nature ain't that simple. Doctor Jimmy and Mister Jim shit and whatnot.




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17-10-2015, 02:09 PM
RE: Theists must think we're complete morons
(17-10-2015 01:51 PM)Matt Finney Wrote:  The only truth about morality is that it doesn't exist. There are no moral truths.




Also, is man exempt from the law of identity? The only way that there could be no moral truths, i.e. principles to guide man's actions and choices in regards to the proper way to live, is if he has no specific identity. Does man have a specific identity or doesn't he? The only way there could be no moral truths is if man has no relationship with reality. Does he or doesn't he?

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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