Theists say the dumbest things
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11-01-2017, 04:52 PM
RE: Theists say the dumbest things
Well said, Shai. People forget how much of Catholic dogma is not actually Biblical but simply traditional (for instance, the "no married preists" thing, as well as the contraception issue), regardless of how well the current culture says the tradition fits scriptural interpretation. There's a LOT of room in that "scriptural interpretation", which is why there are so many denominations in the first place.

That's what I like about Francis... as near as I can tell, he's the first high-level Catholic in centuries who has really lived among the people and dealt with the causes of their suffering, in the way that the early priests did--whereas the rest are more like the Bishops who "sit in High Council chairs", so to speak, and forget whatever they learned "on their way through" the rank of priest. Thus, Francis seems to me to be more concerned with making religion work for the people rather than the other way around-- he takes the theology into account, of course, as Jesus did, but he seems more concerned with bending it a bit where necessary.

Matt. 15:1-3 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!" Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"

You know I think Jesus was just a wise man of his day... but whether he was God Incarnate or not, it's clear he was a man trying to be holy the best way he knew how (thus the title "sons of God", used by Jews of the day to refer to those who endeavored to live holy, set-apart lives) according to Jewish tradition, while being much more directly concerned with the suffering of those he met. Most of his actions in the Gospels is dealing with the suffering of people, helping the poor and afflicted, comforting the needy and troubling the comfortable.

Pope Francis, for all I still disagree with him about, may be the first Christian (defined as "follower of the teachings of Jesus") church leader I have seen in my lifetime. No wonder he pisses off the traditionalists in the clergy and laity.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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11-01-2017, 11:42 PM
RE: Theists say the dumbest things
(11-01-2017 01:46 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Edit: From a Catholic group I'm in on FB:
"Prots gonna Prot" "Those Protestants are so fucking annoying" - in response to the fact the church Dylan Roof shot up, opposes the Death Penalty.

Ah for those glory days of the inquisition eh?

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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12-01-2017, 01:33 AM
RE: Theists say the dumbest things
Saudi Ambassador to UN: Atheists are Terrorists, Because 'We are the Birthplace of Islam'




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12-01-2017, 03:02 AM
RE: Theists say the dumbest things
(12-01-2017 01:33 AM)izel Wrote:  Saudi Ambassador to UN: Atheists are Terrorists, Because 'We are the Birthplace of Islam'




Okay Mister Saudi apologist, so you're saying that Free Speech is okay, so long as someone don't make anyone angry by what they say. Got it. Rolleyes

It honestly blows me away that people would even want that, let alone say that: "my country is homogeneous". It's the same insane thing Madmood Ammadigjihad said about gays not even existing in Iran.

I really hate it when they try to pretend, under scrutiny, that the reason they're doing it is for the protection of the person: "We'll throw you in prison so others don't beat you up or kill you for what you said." In other words, we will hurt you because others might hurt you. Yeah. Great excuse, buddy. You really covered up your agenda, there, with that law.

Then again, the USA has no room to boast, since we lock people up and utterly ruin their lives so they don't risk ruining their lives with drug use. *sigh*

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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12-01-2017, 06:49 AM
RE: Theists say the dumbest things
(11-01-2017 07:31 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
Banjo Wrote:Yeah. No theist has credibility. You and the rest included.

Deluded bunch of fucking idiots.
Going to have to disagree with you there on behalf of myself, KC, Aliza, a few billion people, etc. (Though that's not an attempt to argue the point; a lot of us could believe the moon was made of Cheese, but that wouldn't make it so.) But you're definitely entitled to have and hold that opinion and I won't try to dissuade you from it.

Neh, Banjo's just a little pissy and tired. He gets more aggravated from people doing improper fullstrokes:

Banjo Wrote:Fuck him. He is using his arms. Always use proper professional drummers who are schooled.

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12-01-2017, 06:53 AM
RE: Theists say the dumbest things
Pro Tip #2.

Elk's a smartarse. Tongue

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I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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12-01-2017, 04:48 PM
RE: Theists say the dumbest things
(11-01-2017 04:52 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Well said, Shai. People forget how much of Catholic dogma is not actually Biblical but simply traditional (for instance, the "no married preists" thing, as well as the contraception issue), regardless of how well the current culture says the tradition fits scriptural interpretation. There's a LOT of room in that "scriptural interpretation", which is why there are so many denominations in the first place.

That's what I like about Francis... as near as I can tell, he's the first high-level Catholic in centuries who has really lived among the people and dealt with the causes of their suffering, in the way that the early priests did--whereas the rest are more like the Bishops who "sit in High Council chairs", so to speak, and forget whatever they learned "on their way through" the rank of priest. Thus, Francis seems to me to be more concerned with making religion work for the people rather than the other way around-- he takes the theology into account, of course, as Jesus did, but he seems more concerned with bending it a bit where necessary.

Matt. 15:1-3 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don't wash their hands before they eat!" Jesus replied, "And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"

You know I think Jesus was just a wise man of his day... but whether he was God Incarnate or not, it's clear he was a man trying to be holy the best way he knew how (thus the title "sons of God", used by Jews of the day to refer to those who endeavored to live holy, set-apart lives) according to Jewish tradition, while being much more directly concerned with the suffering of those he met. Most of his actions in the Gospels is dealing with the suffering of people, helping the poor and afflicted, comforting the needy and troubling the comfortable.

Pope Francis, for all I still disagree with him about, may be the first Christian (defined as "follower of the teachings of Jesus") church leader I have seen in my lifetime. No wonder he pisses off the traditionalists in the clergy and laity.

Thanks RS. And yeah, that's something that's (at least in my opinion) something to keep in mind when comparing the denominations...even, though I hate to admit it, our Borg poster's. Given his Orthodox church holds to the same thing, that tradition informs Scripture and belief. Most generic non-denom churches, to paint with a broad brush, would claim they strictly follow the Bible, and that's why Catholicism is false. Anyhow, sorry for that tangent, I'd guess that most Catholics, if you asked them, wouldn't realize that a lot of things like contraception, as you brought up, or clerical marriage, are based more in tradition than Scripture (although efforts are made to justify both with Scripture, but they're kind of flimsy on those grounds).

I would agree that he seems to be one of very few (if not the only one) with that sort of experience. Granted, JP2 and B16 both lived among the people at times too, but both also were very career oriented to their own ways, or involved in massive political movements. Francis was disciplined and exiled at points in his career, and came back from them with more empathy for his fellow people. Not saying I agree with all he says or does, but still, I tend to think of that verse as well.

My parish priest at home once went on a pilgrimage to Rome (before Francis was elected) and the tour guide at the Vatican made a joke about the last time we had a Pope who thought the clergy should live more like the people, he was followed by 400 years of Italian Popes who loved their fine silks and good food and wine and such. Makes me ponder if the same is in store today.

And love the point on Jesus, even if you don't believe him to be more than a man.

(11-01-2017 11:42 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(11-01-2017 01:46 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Edit: From a Catholic group I'm in on FB:
"Prots gonna Prot" "Those Protestants are so fucking annoying" - in response to the fact the church Dylan Roof shot up, opposes the Death Penalty.

Ah for those glory days of the inquisition eh?

I know you're being sarcastic, but a few of these Trads in this group would say that with a 100% straight face. I've seen them defend the Inquisition as being falsely maligned.

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12-01-2017, 05:05 PM
RE: Theists say the dumbest things
A co-worker saw me reading Hitchens' "god is not Great" and said this "I don't know how you can get your beliefs from a book" 0.o I was so dumbfounded at the idiocy of that statement I was left speechless.

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12-01-2017, 05:25 PM
RE: Theists say the dumbest things
(12-01-2017 05:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  A co-worker saw me reading Hitchens' "god is not Great" and said this "I don't know how you can get your beliefs from a book" 0.o I was so dumbfounded at the idiocy of that statement I was left speechless.

Well, to be fair, they probably never actually read their book and just got their beliefs from parents & preachers

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12-01-2017, 07:23 PM
RE: Theists say the dumbest things
(12-01-2017 05:05 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  A co-worker saw me reading Hitchens' "god is not Great" and said this "I don't know how you can get your beliefs from a book" 0.o I was so dumbfounded at the idiocy of that statement I was left speechless.

The correct answer to that statement is:

"I don't get my beliefs from 'a' book; I get my beliefs from hundreds and hundreds of books. What kind of crazy person would take everything they believe from one book?"

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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