Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
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12-02-2014, 08:27 PM
Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
"Prove that God is not man made" .

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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12-02-2014, 08:39 PM
RE: Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
Hmmm...Consider would that make theist, apeoplemadeupgodist? After all, they do believe that people did not make up god, so they are apeoplemadeupgodist.

...
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12-02-2014, 10:36 PM
RE: Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
Nah, that's a negative, so it's not up to them to prove it. They should prove their god is the only true god though. So they should, at least indirectly, prove that other gods are false.

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12-02-2014, 10:55 PM
RE: Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
The Bible says so.

Checkmate.
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12-02-2014, 11:01 PM
RE: Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
(12-02-2014 08:27 PM)sporehux Wrote:  "Prove that God is not man made" .

Would that be a man-made proof?

Consider

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12-02-2014, 11:42 PM
RE: Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
(12-02-2014 08:27 PM)sporehux Wrote:  "Prove that God is not man made" .

I never even encountered the notion that I had anything prove as a believer, until I was no longer one. The default position was that my religion was true, literally, and that it was self evidently so. God's existence, as well as the doctrines of my religion, were the very first lessons of my childhood.

The effect upon me was much the same as any boy under similar circumstances. I believed that the default position of humanity was to believe in god, like my default position had been. The time frame in which the deception took place, and the age at which my mind was overcome with adult ideas, rendered me defenseless to the point of being unaware that any defense was necessary or possible.

The idea that as a believer, I was asserting a position, and not holding the self evident default, never even entered the outskirts of my understanding. I had no knowledge of the existence of Atheists who object to such things for rational, thoughtful, reasons. Given my upbringing, I understand the perspective of the Theist in not understanding the burden of proof, nor understanding the need for such a thing. Childhood indoctrination is effective at clouding what ought to be considered a simple principle.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
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13-02-2014, 12:25 AM
RE: Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
(12-02-2014 08:27 PM)sporehux Wrote:  "Prove that God is not man made" .

As we all know, it's women who make babies. Therefor god is woman made.

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13-02-2014, 04:00 AM
RE: Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
(12-02-2014 08:27 PM)sporehux Wrote:  "Prove that God is not man made" .

Even though we all know that you can't prove a negative, it's still useful to have these simple lines to throw back at them in such situations if they persist in being an annoyance. The simpler the better. After all, you can't change their minds by presenting evidence contrary to their indoctrination, you first need to show why their indoctrination is flawed.
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13-02-2014, 04:05 AM
RE: Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
(12-02-2014 10:36 PM)nach_in Wrote:  Nah, that's a negative, so it's not up to them to prove it. They should prove their god is the only true god though. So they should, at least indirectly, prove that other gods are false.

Yeah, exactly.

But apologetics do something amazing....ly stupid in that situation. They claim that all religions are actually just one religion, but they convey the same good guidelines and have the same good effects on people in a different way and therefore are all true. And when confronted with regligions that are contradictory, they say that man kind has misinterpreted and altered the religion over time.

So stupid...

Fun "paradox": The higher the selection pressure, the slower evolution takes place.
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13-02-2014, 07:44 AM
RE: Theists should also prove the NEGATIVE !
(12-02-2014 11:42 PM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  
(12-02-2014 08:27 PM)sporehux Wrote:  "Prove that God is not man made" .

I never even encountered the notion that I had anything prove as a believer, until I was no longer one. The default position was that my religion was true, literally, and that it was self evidently so. God's existence, as well as the doctrines of my religion, were the very first lessons of my childhood.

The effect upon me was much the same as any boy under similar circumstances. I believed that the default position of humanity was to believe in god, like my default position had been. The time frame in which the deception took place, and the age at which my mind was overcome with adult ideas, rendered me defenseless to the point of being unaware that any defense was necessary or possible.

The idea that as a believer, I was asserting a position, and not holding the self evident default, never even entered the outskirts of my understanding. I had no knowledge of the existence of Atheists who object to such things for rational, thoughtful, reasons. Given my upbringing, I understand the perspective of the Theist in not understanding the burden of proof, nor understanding the need for such a thing. Childhood indoctrination is effective at clouding what ought to be considered a simple principle.

I can't agree more. I grew up Christian in a city populated almost exclusively by Christians. No one asks if you go to church; they ask which church you go to.

It was quite a shock going to college. Particularly after a good PHI 101 class and a lot of conversations with my atheist roommate who was a philosophy major. Looking back on it, I'm amazed at how patient he was with me.
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