Theists, what brings you to TTA?
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14-10-2015, 08:10 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 07:26 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 06:33 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Faith IS the delusion, belief without evidence.

What if evidence is the delusion? Bechased

Yabut, the conclusion of induction is not evidence.

Never was, never will be. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-10-2015, 08:22 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 08:07 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 07:40 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  So you realize and appreciate your impermanence and your inevitable descent into the abyss. Good on you. Thumbsup
As of now, perhaps. I am changing though. I have little doubt that I will be fit for heaven upon death. Not that that means I will have any recollection of this life or my actions. I just don't know that part.

You don't know the first part, either. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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14-10-2015, 08:22 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 08:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 07:26 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  What if evidence is the delusion? Bechased

Yabut, the conclusion of induction is not evidence.

Never was, never will be. Drinking Beverage

The Problem of Induction raises the question why we should trust or have faith in our capacity to acquire and evaluate evidence.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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14-10-2015, 08:23 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 07:37 PM)julep Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 07:28 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I know and time will tell after I am gone. I'm not making a show of anything. Not superior in any way a assure you. If someone didn't ask I wouldn't have said it.

Baloney. If you didn't think your views were superior, you wouldn't be trying to inflict them.

Please show us how we can benefit from your world view, by demonstrating how your views have helped you personally. In real terms: how have your beliefs improved your health, financial standing, and/or social position? What great art or literature have your beliefs help you create? How have your beliefs saved or improved the lives of people you know? (actual references that people could verify preferred) How have your beliefs made your local universe a better place? Any greener grass, animals you have aged, etc.? Anything SPECIFIC and VERIFIABLE would be appreciated and evaluated.
Didn't mention anything that happened at the moment I was actually saved.
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14-10-2015, 08:24 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 08:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 08:07 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  As of now, perhaps. I am changing though. I have little doubt that I will be fit for heaven upon death. Not that that means I will have any recollection of this life or my actions. I just don't know that part.

You don't know the first part, either. Drinking Beverage
The first part of what?
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14-10-2015, 08:25 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 08:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 08:07 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  As of now, perhaps. I am changing though. I have little doubt that I will be fit for heaven upon death. Not that that means I will have any recollection of this life or my actions. I just don't know that part.

You don't know the first part, either. Drinking Beverage
Oh, never mind. Just you being you.
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14-10-2015, 09:51 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 08:22 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 08:10 PM)Chas Wrote:  Yabut, the conclusion of induction is not evidence.

Never was, never will be. Drinking Beverage

The Problem of Induction raises the question why we should trust or have faith in our capacity to acquire and evaluate evidence.

Faith, from the Latin fides, means trust. It is knowledge which should be evaluated by the source. I have faith that New Zealand exists and I consider this reasonable since I consider the maps and such that I have seen to be reliable. Having absolute Faith in God is considered reasonable by most Christians since they consider God to be eternally truthfull, living, good etc.
Instead of saying Faith is belief without evidence, I think that saying Faith is belief without experience. Faith and experience are our two methods of gaining knowledge. This I believe makes more sense since if Jesus existed as portrayed in the Gospels as most Christians affirm, than would we not have to say that the apostles had no Faith in Jesus.

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14-10-2015, 10:16 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 06:13 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Many were once in the faith and you can't say it was weak faith in all cases.

That's a big gripe of mine. Some theists saying that we had weak faith, incomplete upbringing, or something as ridiculous.
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14-10-2015, 11:07 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 06:08 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 10:42 AM)skyking Wrote:  It is habit to "return fire" in this mental version of The Crusades with a blind fervor, but I think many of these theists are here on the path to their eventual deconversion. A little compassion goes a long way.
Deconversion? Why would you want to remove someone from Faith? I understand that many where born into misconception and that false doctrine causes confusion and weak Faith. It's just not cool. I'll leave it at that. Just not in the mood to fight right now I guess.
They remove themselves. Go read the de-conversion thread.
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15-10-2015, 02:45 AM
Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 07:52 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Julep,

Physical ailment:
Improved vision literally, improved lung function. Ability to go beyond physical limits of tiredom and hunger.
Financial and social standings are irelevent to me as they are wants of the physical and made up by man as signs of success.

I have actually written some pretty good stuff and have a talent for drawing which my beliefs have inspired. My views have helped a good bit of people. Two come to mind as definative but many have come to me personally with thanks and apreciation for the light I had shown pertaining to their lives. Not me though.

All grass has been greener. All scenary more spectacular.
Animals can sense the calm and compassion that come off of me and act accordingly. Even insects act differently. I can literally be covered in ants and not be bit for the most part. Can handle wasps in there territory without being stung. One dog did try to bite me but really just pinched me. It was just protecting the elderly woman and child that were with it though. How would I go about verifying any of that?

Why are you so certain that your faith in (what exactly?) is necessarily responsible for any changes in your life?

I can think of reasonable explanations for nearly every claim here. Although, some of them may in fact demonstrate some psychological effects of faith. Your calm demeanor may have been assisted by your belief in faith, but I still see no reason to think that originated externally from you.

Did you do the ant test before you had faith? If not that's bad science man. No control group. Doesn't give me a lot of confidence in your claims. Perhaps they were not the biting sort? Perhaps you posed no threat to them?

Illnesses very often just run their course. Your body already had the ability to heal itself before you ever had faith. Your belief in faith may calm you such that your body's healing ability is improved.

None of these changes in your life prove anything about the reality of your beliefs.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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