Theists, what brings you to TTA?
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15-10-2015, 05:52 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 02:45 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 07:52 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Julep,

Physical ailment:
Improved vision literally, improved lung function. Ability to go beyond physical limits of tiredom and hunger.
Financial and social standings are irelevent to me as they are wants of the physical and made up by man as signs of success.

I have actually written some pretty good stuff and have a talent for drawing which my beliefs have inspired. My views have helped a good bit of people. Two come to mind as definative but many have come to me personally with thanks and apreciation for the light I had shown pertaining to their lives. Not me though.

All grass has been greener. All scenary more spectacular.
Animals can sense the calm and compassion that come off of me and act accordingly. Even insects act differently. I can literally be covered in ants and not be bit for the most part. Can handle wasps in there territory without being stung. One dog did try to bite me but really just pinched me. It was just protecting the elderly woman and child that were with it though. How would I go about verifying any of that?

Why are you so certain that your faith in (what exactly?) is necessarily responsible for any changes in your life?

I can think of reasonable explanations for nearly every claim here. Although, some of them may in fact demonstrate some psychological effects of faith. Your calm demeanor may have been assisted by your belief in faith, but I still see no reason to think that originated externally from you.

Did you do the ant test before you had faith? If not that's bad science man. No control group. Doesn't give me a lot of confidence in your claims. Perhaps they were not the biting sort? Perhaps you posed no threat to them?

Illnesses very often just run their course. Your body already had the ability to heal itself before you ever had faith. Your belief in faith may calm you such that your body's healing ability is improved.

None of these changes in your life prove anything about the reality of your beliefs.
Because without it I oils have never changed.
And no I never really tempted sitting in ants before my Faith. It's not like I g around looking for antbeds to rest my head in. But is you ever go set on the ground in the grass for a long enough time ants will climb on you. The more calm you are the more will join. I actually had a huge red and black ant climb all over me before. I got him to climb to my hand and then sorta flung him away. About five minutes later he was back. It went up my pant leg. Almost lost my cool but didn't. It climbed back out at which time I decided to let it come along.
I've never known of anybody's vision repairing Itself. And without Faith in God and his direction my lungs would be in worse shape then they are. Salvation and Faith changed and continue to change my life for the better. Just because you can't make a conn action between two things doesn't mean that the individual that those things happen to can't.
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15-10-2015, 06:01 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
Hmmm, Pops. Before I jump to conclusions, do you consider yourself to be a christian? Do you follow the NT, and believe that Jesus is G-d?
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15-10-2015, 06:35 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 06:01 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Hmmm, Pops. Before I jump to conclusions, do you consider yourself to be a christian? Do you follow the NT, and believe that Jesus is G-d?
Jesus of Nazareth is the son of God. I cannot be considered solely Christian I don't think. I study scripture from different religions. You could consider me Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or any combination of the three.
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15-10-2015, 06:37 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 06:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 06:01 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Hmmm, Pops. Before I jump to conclusions, do you consider yourself to be a christian? Do you follow the NT, and believe that Jesus is G-d?
Jesus of Nazareth is the son of God. I cannot be considered solely Christian I don't think. I study scripture from different religions. You could consider me Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or any combination of the three.

Ah. I see now why Girly referred to you as being more of a pantheist.
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15-10-2015, 06:48 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 06:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 06:01 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Hmmm, Pops. Before I jump to conclusions, do you consider yourself to be a christian? Do you follow the NT, and believe that Jesus is G-d?

Jesus of Nazareth is the son of God. I cannot be considered solely Christian I don't think. I study scripture from different religions. You could consider me Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or any combination of the three.

Aren't all three of those groups fundamentally opposed to one another?

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15-10-2015, 06:49 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 06:37 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 06:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Jesus of Nazareth is the son of God. I cannot be considered solely Christian I don't think. I study scripture from different religions. You could consider me Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or any combination of the three.

Ah. I see now why Girly referred to you as being more of a pantheist.
I strongly believe that all that is in existence is of God. I do not consider the universe to be God as much as being of God and subsidiary to it. All things seem to go about their preordained path given to them by God, except for man.
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15-10-2015, 06:56 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 06:48 AM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 06:35 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Jesus of Nazareth is the son of God. I cannot be considered solely Christian I don't think. I study scripture from different religions. You could consider me Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or any combination of the three.

Aren't all three of those groups fundamentally opposed to one another?
Not at all. Based on the teachings of man and his greed and pride they are at one anothers throats. However, based on their core scriptures and the writings of the Bahai, they are generally identical in beliefs.
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15-10-2015, 06:56 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 06:58 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No you cannot accept contradictory claims because of faith.

Faith allows you to believe things without evidence or in the face of contradictory evidence. There is nothing about faith that provides any mechanism for identifying and eliminating conflicting beliefs. Faith is a failed epistemology in every respect.

Quote:Prove to me doesn't have to be proof to you. In a courthouse If you where robbed at gunpoint but there where no witnesses then the perpetrator would get off. Does that mean they didn't rob you. Where is your proof? Oh you where there and it happened to you. Undeniable to you for sure. In court, not so much.

There is so much wrong with that I don't know where to start. Robberies are a well-known event that happen frequently. The amount of proof required to believe somebody was robbed is minimal and it isn't even unreasonable to take somebody's word for it as long as you know them to be generally honest. Proving somebody guilty of that robbery in court requires much more evidence and it is possible that people could believe that the victim was robbed but that they haven't proven the specific claim of who robbed them.

This in no way compares to the claim that you have been given some personal revelation of a supernatural nature and have experienced miracle healing. The amount of evidence needed to support that claim is off the charts. Your claims conflict with others who say they have had similar experiences so we know that at least some are deluded. The most reasonable conclusion is that everybody who makes these claims is deluded.

You need help Pops. Get some.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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15-10-2015, 06:59 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 06:56 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 06:58 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No you cannot accept contradictory claims because of faith.

Faith allows you to believe things without evidence or in the face of contradictory evidence. There is nothing about faith that provides any mechanism for identifying and eliminating conflicting beliefs. Faith is a failed epistemology in every respect.

Quote:Prove to me doesn't have to be proof to you. In a courthouse If you where robbed at gunpoint but there where no witnesses then the perpetrator would get off. Does that mean they didn't rob you. Where is your proof? Oh you where there and it happened to you. Undeniable to you for sure. In court, not so much.

There is so much wrong with that I don't know where to start. Robberies are a well-known event that happen frequently. The amount of proof required to believe somebody was robbed is minimal and it isn't even unreasonable to take somebody's word for it as long as you know them to be generally honest. Proving somebody guilty of that robbery in court requires much more evidence and it is possible that people could believe that the victim was robbed but that they haven't proven the specific claim of who robbed them.

This in no way compares to the claim that you have been given some personal revelation of a supernatural nature and have experienced miracle healing. The amount of evidence needed to support that claim is off the charts. Your claims conflict with others who say they have had similar experiences so we know that at least some are deluded. The most reasonable conclusion is that everybody who makes these claims is deluded.

You need help Pops. Get some.
Scripture teaches us to gauge the validity of one's claims and teachings with scripture.

My help is with me at all times, yet at times I do not perceive it due to the afflictions of my own hands.
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15-10-2015, 07:13 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 06:59 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Scripture teaches us to gauge the validity of one's claims and teachings with scripture.

Which is completely circular and worthless. You would do far better to gauge the validity of your claims against reality rather than bronze age and earlier mythology.

Quote:My help is with me at all times, yet at times I do not perceive it due to the afflictions of my own hands.

You need help Pops.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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