Theists, what brings you to TTA?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-10-2015, 07:17 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 07:13 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 06:59 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Scripture teaches us to gauge the validity of one's claims and teachings with scripture.

Which is completely circular and worthless. You would do far better to gauge the validity of your claims against reality rather than bronze age and earlier mythology.

Quote:My help is with me at all times, yet at times I do not perceive it due to the afflictions of my own hands.

You need help Pops.
I gauge the validity of my knowledge against all things. I was speaking strictly of religious matters with other of religion.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2015, 07:32 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 05:52 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 02:45 AM)Cardinal Smurf Wrote:  Why are you so certain that your faith in (what exactly?) is necessarily responsible for any changes in your life?

I can think of reasonable explanations for nearly every claim here. Although, some of them may in fact demonstrate some psychological effects of faith. Your calm demeanor may have been assisted by your belief in faith, but I still see no reason to think that originated externally from you.

Did you do the ant test before you had faith? If not that's bad science man. No control group. Doesn't give me a lot of confidence in your claims. Perhaps they were not the biting sort? Perhaps you posed no threat to them?

Illnesses very often just run their course. Your body already had the ability to heal itself before you ever had faith. Your belief in faith may calm you such that your body's healing ability is improved.

None of these changes in your life prove anything about the reality of your beliefs.
Because without it I oils have never changed.
And no I never really tempted sitting in ants before my Faith. It's not like I g around looking for antbeds to rest my head in. But is you ever go set on the ground in the grass for a long enough time ants will climb on you. The more calm you are the more will join. I actually had a huge red and black ant climb all over me before. I got him to climb to my hand and then sorta flung him away. About five minutes later he was back. It went up my pant leg. Almost lost my cool but didn't. It climbed back out at which time I decided to let it come along.
I've never known of anybody's vision repairing Itself. And without Faith in God and his direction my lungs would be in worse shape then they are. Salvation and Faith changed and continue to change my life for the better. Just because you can't make a conn action between two things doesn't mean that the individual that those things happen to can't.

Blink

Blink

Shocking

Gasp

Facepalm

Laugh out load

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes goodwithoutgod's post
15-10-2015, 08:28 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 07:52 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Julep,

Physical ailment:
Improved vision literally, improved lung function. Ability to go beyond physical limits of tiredom and hunger.
Financial and social standings are irelevent to me as they are wants of the physical and made up by man as signs of success.

I have actually written some pretty good stuff and have a talent for drawing which my beliefs have inspired. My views have helped a good bit of people. Two come to mind as definative but many have come to me personally with thanks and apreciation for the light I had shown pertaining to their lives. Not me though.

All grass has been greener. All scenary more spectacular.
Animals can sense the calm and compassion that come off of me and act accordingly. Even insects act differently. I can literally be covered in ants and not be bit for the most part. Can handle wasps in there territory without being stung. One dog did try to bite me but really just pinched me. It was just protecting the elderly woman and child that were with it though. How would I go about verifying any of that?

So, without faith: a few years ago I developed that thing where it was impossible to read small print. I got bifocals…but found a couple of years later that I could read small print again without them. Whenever I train physically I improve my lung capacity. I can do a bunch of stuff even when I'm tired and hungry, too.

Getting bit and stung "just a little bit" entirely negates your claim that your faith protects you from being harmed by animals and insects. Radiating calm? maybe, but your story about the dog suggests that you may be radiating something else entirely.

I'll take your word for it that you've written some good things and that you can draw and that your faith is part of where your ideas come from. I've written some good things too (I can't draw worth a damn), without faith being an inspiration. Scenery is no more or less spectacular to me now that I have no faith than it was when I did.

You have not really made a good case for the benefits of faith to me, because I have those benefits and more already without faith. I could make a list of benefits that I gained when I abandoned faith that would be meaningful to me and probably as unconvincing to you. (Examples: extra time to do the things I really loved, rather than going to church or pondering scriptures; feeling happy with myself rather than guilty about "sinning"; a subjective feeling that my life had more meaning and was more precious because once I was dead I was done; etc.)

But only one of us is telling the other that she ought to change her world view to the same as his. You continue to state that you have the answers and I don't, so the burden of proof that your way is better is on you. I appreciate your attempt to rise to the challenge, but you haven't convinced me that adopting your point of view is going to benefit my life (or the universe).
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2015, 09:05 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 08:28 AM)julep Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 07:52 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Julep,

Physical ailment:
Improved vision literally, improved lung function. Ability to go beyond physical limits of tiredom and hunger.
Financial and social standings are irelevent to me as they are wants of the physical and made up by man as signs of success.

I have actually written some pretty good stuff and have a talent for drawing which my beliefs have inspired. My views have helped a good bit of people. Two come to mind as definative but many have come to me personally with thanks and apreciation for the light I had shown pertaining to their lives. Not me though.

All grass has been greener. All scenary more spectacular.
Animals can sense the calm and compassion that come off of me and act accordingly. Even insects act differently. I can literally be covered in ants and not be bit for the most part. Can handle wasps in there territory without being stung. One dog did try to bite me but really just pinched me. It was just protecting the elderly woman and child that were with it though. How would I go about verifying any of that?

So, without faith: a few years ago I developed that thing where it was impossible to read small print. I got bifocals…but found a couple of years later that I could read small print again without them. Whenever I train physically I improve my lung capacity. I can do a bunch of stuff even when I'm tired and hungry, too.

Getting bit and stung "just a little bit" entirely negates your claim that your faith protects you from being harmed by animals and insects. Radiating calm? maybe, but your story about the dog suggests that you may be radiating something else entirely.

I'll take your word for it that you've written some good things and that you can draw and that your faith is part of where your ideas come from. I've written some good things too (I can't draw worth a damn), without faith being an inspiration. Scenery is no more or less spectacular to me now that I have no faith than it was when I did.

You have not really made a good case for the benefits of faith to me, because I have those benefits and more already without faith. I could make a list of benefits that I gained when I abandoned faith that would be meaningful to me and probably as unconvincing to you. (Examples: extra time to do the things I really loved, rather than going to church or pondering scriptures; feeling happy with myself rather than guilty about "sinning"; a subjective feeling that my life had more meaning and was more precious because once I was dead I was done; etc.)

But only one of us is telling the other that she ought to change her world view to the same as his. You continue to state that you have the answers and I don't, so the burden of proof that your way is better is on you. I appreciate your attempt to rise to the challenge, but you haven't convinced me that adopting your point of view is going to benefit my life (or the universe).
I didn't realize that I said I have the answers and you don't. I know that without my salvation I would most likely be dead and others would be too. Therefore without the Faith that was bestowed unto me I would not only still be a negative hurtful existence, but I most likely wouldn't exist at all. I don't think Faith is needed to live or experience. It just makes life and experience more whole to me. One that had a religious view who turned from it was most likely lead astray by misteachings of said religion and henceforth never had Faith, but only forced doctrine and belief.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2015, 09:50 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 07:17 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 07:13 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Which is completely circular and worthless. You would do far better to gauge the validity of your claims against reality rather than bronze age and earlier mythology.

I gauge the validity of my knowledge against all things.

Except that you don't. You accept your own personal theology despite the fact that it makes claims that are not in any way demonstrable. You are not gauging your beliefs (NOT knowledge) against anything but your own hopes of what you want to be true. Faith is a trap and you are well and truly caught in it.

Quote: I was speaking strictly of religious matters with other of religion.

Well, discussing scriptural canon is like discussing Star Trek canon or Star Wars canon. It can be an interesting intellectual endeavor but it ultimately has no point.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2015, 10:00 AM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 09:05 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 08:28 AM)julep Wrote:  So, without faith: a few years ago I developed that thing where it was impossible to read small print. I got bifocals…but found a couple of years later that I could read small print again without them. Whenever I train physically I improve my lung capacity. I can do a bunch of stuff even when I'm tired and hungry, too.

Getting bit and stung "just a little bit" entirely negates your claim that your faith protects you from being harmed by animals and insects. Radiating calm? maybe, but your story about the dog suggests that you may be radiating something else entirely.

I'll take your word for it that you've written some good things and that you can draw and that your faith is part of where your ideas come from. I've written some good things too (I can't draw worth a damn), without faith being an inspiration. Scenery is no more or less spectacular to me now that I have no faith than it was when I did.

You have not really made a good case for the benefits of faith to me, because I have those benefits and more already without faith. I could make a list of benefits that I gained when I abandoned faith that would be meaningful to me and probably as unconvincing to you. (Examples: extra time to do the things I really loved, rather than going to church or pondering scriptures; feeling happy with myself rather than guilty about "sinning"; a subjective feeling that my life had more meaning and was more precious because once I was dead I was done; etc.)

But only one of us is telling the other that she ought to change her world view to the same as his. You continue to state that you have the answers and I don't, so the burden of proof that your way is better is on you. I appreciate your attempt to rise to the challenge, but you haven't convinced me that adopting your point of view is going to benefit my life (or the universe).
I didn't realize that I said I have the answers and you don't. I know that without my salvation I would most likely be dead and others would be too. Therefore without the Faith that was bestowed unto me I would not only still be a negative hurtful existence, but I most likely wouldn't exist at all. I don't think Faith is needed to live or experience. It just makes life and experience more whole to me. One that had a religious view who turned from it was most likely lead astray by misteachings of said religion and henceforth never had Faith, but only forced doctrine and belief.

You have just committed the No true Scotsman fallacy. When I had faith, I had faith.

Many of your posts assert that those who don't have faith are following evil, selfish, etc. You very much come off as someone who thinks that you have the answers and that others should believe what you do. If that's not what you intend, you should revise your approach.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like julep's post
15-10-2015, 08:14 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 10:00 AM)julep Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 09:05 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I didn't realize that I said I have the answers and you don't. I know that without my salvation I would most likely be dead and others would be too. Therefore without the Faith that was bestowed unto me I would not only still be a negative hurtful existence, but I most likely wouldn't exist at all. I don't think Faith is needed to live or experience. It just makes life and experience more whole to me. One that had a religious view who turned from it was most likely lead astray by misteachings of said religion and henceforth never had Faith, but only forced doctrine and belief.

You have just committed the No true Scotsman fallacy. When I had faith, I had faith.

Many of your posts assert that those who don't have faith are following evil, selfish, etc. You very much come off as someone who thinks that you have the answers and that others should believe what you do. If that's not what you intend, you should revise your approach.
Real Faith is unwavering. If you ever had it then you wouldn't have lost it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-10-2015, 08:36 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 08:14 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 10:00 AM)julep Wrote:  You have just committed the No true Scotsman fallacy. When I had faith, I had faith.

Many of your posts assert that those who don't have faith are following evil, selfish, etc. You very much come off as someone who thinks that you have the answers and that others should believe what you do. If that's not what you intend, you should revise your approach.

Real Faith is unwavering. If you ever had it then you wouldn't have lost it.

Yes, and no true Scotsman would ever be caught without a kilt.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Free Thought's post
15-10-2015, 09:33 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 08:14 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 10:00 AM)julep Wrote:  You have just committed the No true Scotsman fallacy. When I had faith, I had faith.

Many of your posts assert that those who don't have faith are following evil, selfish, etc. You very much come off as someone who thinks that you have the answers and that others should believe what you do. If that's not what you intend, you should revise your approach.
Real Faith is unwavering. If you ever had it then you wouldn't have lost it.

Pops,

You and I have something in common. We both believe that the Hebrew Scriptures (also known as the “old testament”) is the word of G-d. Because of that, we also agree that idolatry is fundamentally wrong, and that at least up until the point that Jesus was born, the Jews were right, and were practicing the correct religion.

Yet, the Hebrew Scriptures are cram packed with stories of idolatry. In spite of shared view that Judaism was right and everyone else was wrong, millions of Jews throughout the ancient world were enticed into idolatry in direct defiance of G-d’s clear instruction to avoid this practice. Even when Jews were educated, and studied Torah, they would moonlight as idolaters. See 1 Kings 18:20 – 19:18.

Something about idolatry feels amazing and keeps drawing in the crowds. Judaism is kind of flat or grounded in comparison to the bells and whistles of that spiritual high that one gets while practicing idolatry. The Jews just weren’t getting this amazing feeling in the religion that you and I believe was correct and proper in that era, so they sought that high in idolatry.

I’m not trying to suggest that you’re an idolater; that's not the goal here, though to be perfectly honest, Jesus does have a certain “status” in Judaism. Christians love to feel their faith. They can completely disregard overwhelming evidence and indisputable facts that are presented to them because they have faith. -But maybe it's worth reevaluating your position on unwavering faith in context with stories that are in our agreed upon book. Isn’t it possible that feeling something amazing isn’t necessarily true or good?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Aliza's post
15-10-2015, 09:44 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(15-10-2015 08:36 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(15-10-2015 08:14 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Real Faith is unwavering. If you ever had it then you wouldn't have lost it.

Yes, and no true Scotsman would ever be caught without a kilt.
Yeah if heard that a few times but I haven't grasped the concept.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: