Theists, what brings you to TTA?
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16-10-2015, 11:39 AM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2015 12:48 PM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(16-10-2015 08:54 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I explained how one can't loose[sic] Faith[sic] but can loose[sic] belief.


Losing faith is easy, just stop taking things on 'faith', stop believing unsubstantiated assertions and claims without evidence. Having 'faith' is being credulous, having 'faith' is being gullible. You can try to hide it behind flowery language and vapid platitudes, but that's doesn't change what 'faith' is, but rather merely obfuscates it to assuage your own ignorance.

Also, 'faith' is not a proper noun, so stop capitalizing it like a douche.


(16-10-2015 08:54 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  As far as someone who "was" truly faithful, but then lost it due to some happening in there[sic] life; couldn't happen.


Yes it can, see above. Nothing mandates that you remain an ignorant and credulous fool, and you should be wary of people and messages that insist you do.


(16-10-2015 08:54 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  We are set in trials daily. Indeed they test our faith or our worth under God. If one claims some calamity took there[sic] Faith[sic] away then I assert that they failed God's test at that time. It's pretty simple.


You can fucking assert all you want, but without evidence, it's a baseless and empty assertion. Things asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

So, how about that evidence?


(16-10-2015 08:54 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I would love for some ustabe[sic] faithful to argue[sic] this point with me. I welcome it with opened[sic] arms. Let me explain something to you; the worst calamity and atrosities[sic], and afflictions can fall upon me from now until my death, whenever that may be, and my Faith[sic] will not falter. That's what true Faith[sic] is.


You do know we have another word for that too, right? It's called 'indoctrination', also colloquially known as 'brain-washing'. If you refuse to even consider the possibility that you might be wrong, that there is any chance that you could change your mind, then you are nothing more than an automaton following your programing.

Why are you even here? Nobody here is sold by your little soldier for Jesus act, because as it's already been pointed out before, many here are former faithful. But they didn't stop thinking, they didn't stop questioning, they didn't check their thoughts, they refused to be afraid to question everything.

You have thoughts you cannot think, ideas you are not allowed to question; you are still an intellectual coward.


(16-10-2015 08:54 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  One can have hope and one can have belief. Both of those lead to Faith[sic]. They are in no way synonymous[sic] though.


You want a synonym? Try "gullible".


(16-10-2015 08:54 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Your buddy said something along the lines of "they were all fakers"


Hey, dumbass! You're the one pulling the No True Scotsman bullshit here, so it's you who are implying that they are 'fakers', that none but you here are or ever was truly 'faithful'; like you have some kind of monopoly on being a credulous idiot.

Unfortunately, you do not.


(16-10-2015 08:54 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So again why would someone fake something to death?


They weren't faking it, you are the one that cannot fathom the remote possibility that others once shared your same flawed thinking, but do so no longer. The possibility that your state of mind is a weakness, a flaw, something to be improved rather than embraced, is an idea that you cannot even seriously entertain.

Contrast that with most everyone else here, we who will change our minds as we're presented with new evidence. We can change our minds, while you swear to never change yours. You refuse to let you mind truly wander, is it any wonder we find you to be a coward?


(16-10-2015 08:54 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  They wouldn't, just like someone truly faithful under God wouldn't be so weak as to abandon that Faith[sic] in the face of adversity.


Lets for a second ignore that according to Christian theology, your god could have made our 'faith' unshakable, but chose not to. He could have made belief in his existence as integral to existence as our thirst or hunger, but he didn't. He could even now make faith redundant, simply by providing verifiable evidence of his existence. If the end game is humanity's salvation, why does he play this bullshit game? Why obfuscate the path to salvation? Why is gullibility the only prerequisite to Heaven?

How come we should have faith in your god, but ignore all the others when their evidence for existence is just as bad as yours? How is a neutral observer supposed to determine which deity concept to pledge themselves too, if they all require gullibility (belief without, or against, evidence; also known as 'faith') as one of their prerequisites?


(16-10-2015 08:54 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I look forward to meeting whoever and whatever God appoints me to meet in this life and the next. The whole abundance of faith, lack of fear thing is pretty cool.


Bullshit, you do have fear, or else you wouldn't swear to never change your mind. If you cannot be a free thinker, then there are thoughts you are afraid to have (and as you rightly should, seeing as how your god punishes 'thought crime'). There are thoughts you cannot have, ideas you are not allowed to entertain, places your mind cannot tread; and all for fear of the loss of your vaunted faith and the eternal damnation that supposedly follows.

So long as you refuse to entertain certain thoughts, you are a coward; and I won't let you pretend otherwise. You are afraid, and your fears are imaginary. You shackle yourself with your thoughts, the rest of us are free; we are the ones truly unafraid, our minds are free to go where we will while you cannot.

Do not speak to us of 'fear', you sniveling coward. Drinking Beverage

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16-10-2015, 02:39 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
Pops!

Idea Clean out your inbox and free up some space so I can PM you. Idea
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16-10-2015, 08:07 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
Clydelee,

Surely things that are wrong can be shown to be wrong. That's the beauty of science.
Real Faith may be tested. Doubt could creep in at points, seemingly terrible things could happen. To someone weak in faith these things could surly deter them. Then again that's not what I'm talking about when I say true Faith. But yeah, I agree that science can prove things wrong or right to some extent. If a previous believer was turned aside by some false thing proven wrong by science, then it is safe to say that they were believing something that may have been not quite right, leading to a low, or partial faith to begin with.

Faith can be sorta forgotten for a minute or two under some conditions. This is only a temporary thing though, and not the fade out of faith, just temporary misplacement.

Pretty sure I already listed brain damage, but maybe not, even brain damage may not remove Faith, if God willed it not to be so.

Faith isn't just knowledge in any way. It is comparable, as useful knowledge isn't lost, niether is true Faith.

I very well could say that. But it's easier to say true Faith.
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16-10-2015, 08:14 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(16-10-2015 01:29 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(16-10-2015 01:08 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Why not say, "the established possibility of Knowledge and God are factual things" if Faith is Knowledge?

Because using the real definition for "faith", which is "positive belief held without, or against, evidence" is indistinguishable from "gullibility".

To have faith, to believe in things without evidence, is to be gullible.

People of faith prey upon, and are preyed upon, much like snake oil salesmen, telemarketers, used car salesmen, TV psychics, and the poor saps who pay them. A lie is easier to swallow when god/Jesus is used to sell it to you, especially when those lies are certainty and comfort.
I am not likened to a damned salesman in any way. Salesmen prey on vulnerable people. Y'all are supposed to be able minded. I'm not preying on anyone, nor selling anything. Salesmen are greedy and manipulative. I am neither.
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16-10-2015, 08:36 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 08:24 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 08:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  You don't know the first part, either. Drinking Beverage
The first part of what?

You said:
Part 1: "I have little doubt that I will be fit for heaven upon death. "
Part 2: "Not that that means I will have any recollection of this life or my actions. I just don't know that part."

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-10-2015, 08:37 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 08:25 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(14-10-2015 08:22 PM)Chas Wrote:  You don't know the first part, either. Drinking Beverage
Oh, never mind. Just you being you.

Yes, I clarify muddy thinking like yours. But you don't get it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-10-2015, 08:39 PM (This post was last modified: 16-10-2015 09:05 PM by Chas.)
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(14-10-2015 09:51 PM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Faith, from the Latin fides, means trust. It is knowledge which should be evaluated by the source. I have faith that New Zealand exists and I consider this reasonable since I consider the maps and such that I have seen to be reliable. Having absolute Faith in God is considered reasonable by most Christians since they consider God to be eternally truthfull, living, good etc.
Instead of saying Faith is belief without evidence, I think that saying Faith is belief without experience. Faith and experience are our two methods of gaining knowledge. This I believe makes more sense since if Jesus existed as portrayed in the Gospels as most Christians affirm, than would we not have to say that the apostles had no Faith in Jesus.

There is evidence that New Zealand exists - that does not require faith.

Your faith in God is belief without evidence.

Faith does not provide knowledge. Never has, never will.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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16-10-2015, 09:09 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(16-10-2015 08:14 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(16-10-2015 01:29 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Because using the real definition for "faith", which is "positive belief held without, or against, evidence" is indistinguishable from "gullibility".

To have faith, to believe in things without evidence, is to be gullible.

People of faith prey upon, and are preyed upon, much like snake oil salesmen, telemarketers, used car salesmen, TV psychics, and the poor saps who pay them. A lie is easier to swallow when god/Jesus is used to sell it to you, especially when those lies are certainty and comfort.
I am not likened to a damned salesman in any way. Salesmen prey on vulnerable people. Y'all are supposed to be able minded. I'm not preying on anyone, nor selling anything. Salesmen are greedy and manipulative. I am neither.

Sin is an imaginary disease invented to sell you the imaginary cure of salvation.

You are an active part of advocating for this scam. When elderly people on fixed income choose to donate 'seed money' to mega-pastors instead of paying their already past-due rent, it is because of their faith, a belief structure that you help create and maintain. When people chose to pray away their cancer, or refuse to take their children to the hospital for their diabetes, and they subsequently die in terrible pain and agony; it's because of a scam you helped create and maintain.

You are a snake-oil salesman, and you give cover to other charlatans. So fuck you. Drinking Beverage

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16-10-2015, 10:45 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
EvolutionKills,

This is gonna be short and to the point.

My claims and assertions are based in personal experience, a life of introspection and observation, and were made into undeniable fact through the intervention of the very thing that you assume is fake. It is also continually verified through scripture that is from different times and regions and span all written history. So for me it isn't baseless assertion at all.
Nothing flowery about it. Ignorance would be due to lack of thought and research and experience. Indeed not the case for me.
If you haven't noticed I'm not generally influenced by people. To be influenced and verified through peaceable scriptures can't really be seen as some hidden agenda by said writings, as they all teach the same thing, and it is equally benificial to all, not a specific few.

To deny things cause you haven't personally witnessed them seems like a crummy way to learn, and a good way to attain a closed, linear thought process.

My Faith wasn't through indoctrination and I do not seek the indoctrination of others, as true Faith would come from truthful introspection and research, not from me. I have more than pondered the possibility of my being wrong all through life. Without near constant question one cannot learn. I have questioned my newly found direction under God for over five years now. That's definitely a big part of my sincerity.
So how am I wrong? I would love to test what you assume against what I know.

I'm here to induce productive thought that could lead to real direction for the sake and benifit of all existence. I still question everything to some extent, however at some point, one must accept the things they have learned at some point. Especially if it isn't ever proven wrong in any way.

Tell me; how would one have thoughts that they cannot think? My Faith isn't attained from lack of thought and doubt. Thought and doubt just make it stronger.

Gullible would be someone who takes things for granted. I have never taken much for granted. I don't expect anyone else to either. To be so niave as to assume that all ancients that wrote of life and existence and the significance thereof within all written time were all completely wrong and you are totally right is foolish. Science and true Faith work together easily and completely. You are just childish in your stubborn linear thought, or the lack of opened mindedness in favor of what you are fed by society.

No, you said they were faking. Never said I was the only one to ever have faith here. Anyone can come across knowledge of they apply themselves. It helps to be honest and introspective though as self deceit can lie deep within dark corners.

You sure do assume a lot. Never said I am the only one capable of anything. I generally say the opposite. But once someone knows something, to reapratedly question it is not efficient. You do not know what I question at all. More assumption.
You say you can change your mind, and I'm glad. I can too. Please say saomething to help me alter my knowledge base. Give me something I can use, cause the repeated personal attack and assumption is really old and weak. Kinda makes you look like a hypocrite. Just sayin. Not bein negative.

God does make Faith unshakeable in some cases.
Sin is everywhere and rooted deep. It's not that God isn't obvious. It's that you have been manipulated from birth till now. It's difficult to swallow such a large pill as that truth all at once. Faith and salvation are easy once you realize that you have been lied to by principalities that profit from your naive submission with every step you take. We are given all existence that we can observe. We have infinite opportunity, we can cause terrible pain under selfish, greed direction. There has bein a belief in a creative source throughout all of man's existence. History repeats itself and will continue to, to a point. Like I said, faith grows over time with truthful direction and real research. You can't have a predisposition though.

The prerequisite to heaven is rightious living without greed and material want through a thankful respect for existence and the creator of said existence. This can only be be done through the self sacrifice of greed and self under the direction of God. Still sound like flowery, fluffnstuff?

All gods are subsidiary and where created by God. Names are useless except for division. This is a huge issue. All peaceful giving scripture leads to one God of all creation that is loving, giving, merciful, long suffering, patient, just, all knowing and so forth. Hidden away in some scripture you can even find pieces that suggest the naming of God is the work of the opposing direction. All scriptures I have read that are peaceful speak of unity. Naming the Creator leads to division and all level of pain on global levels. That is wholly contradictory to scripture and is shown to be such through testing against scripture.

Not swearing not to change my mind. I learn stuff daily. Faith, isn't a question or a fancy, it is fact. Still, I insist for the sake of learning, pleas to give me some compelling thing that makes me question my Faith.

What thoughts am I advised against having except for those that lead to a negative ,greedy act?

Blah blah blah, ok tell me what free thought you have that I do not have. Show me how your beliefs and scientific facts being wholly encompassed by my Faith is due to the lack of thought and understanding on MY part.

You personally attack and assume in a childish fearful manner, as you blindly accuse me of fear and absence of though. People are afraid of what they don't know they say. It is apparent with you.

That was a really long post that said a whole lotta nothing. Kudos on staying the course of hypocrisy and fear coupled with willful ignorance and childlike defence mechanisms. Makes for great productive convo.
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16-10-2015, 10:46 PM
RE: Theists, what brings you to TTA?
(16-10-2015 02:39 PM)Aliza Wrote:  Pops!

Idea Clean out your inbox and free up some space so I can PM you. Idea
Tried, can't. Can't access through tapatalk. Already cleared some memory yesterday, to no avail, evidently. Will see if yo can find a mass delete option.
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