Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
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20-01-2017, 09:59 PM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
You know, from one hand, theologically speaking, the belief should matter more.

On a more personal level, I prefer not so much works or action, as much as how one lives their life. The confluence of both is great, but I'd more happily coexist alongside anyone on this forum, theist or atheist, than some like this guy in my image below, who posted in a Catholic FB group I'm in:
[Image: mB61o6H.png?1]

Thank God his profile lists him as single. (And yes, I did report the post. Sadly I could not find the law firm he worked for, to send them a screenshot.)

Need to think of a witty signature.
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21-01-2017, 02:33 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(20-01-2017 09:59 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  You know, from one hand, theologically speaking, the belief should matter more.

On a more personal level, I prefer not so much works or action, as much as how one lives their life. The confluence of both is great, but I'd more happily coexist alongside anyone on this forum, theist or atheist, than some like this guy in my image below, who posted in a Catholic FB group I'm in:
[Image: mB61o6H.png?1]

Thank God his profile lists him as single. (And yes, I did report the post. Sadly I could not find the law firm he worked for, to send them a screenshot.)

sure you can't send it down to the local police department? Dodgy

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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21-01-2017, 11:00 AM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2017 11:17 AM by Shai Hulud.)
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(21-01-2017 02:33 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(20-01-2017 09:59 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  You know, from one hand, theologically speaking, the belief should matter more.

On a more personal level, I prefer not so much works or action, as much as how one lives their life. The confluence of both is great, but I'd more happily coexist alongside anyone on this forum, theist or atheist, than some like this guy in my image below, who posted in a Catholic FB group I'm in:
[Image: mB61o6H.png?1]

Thank God his profile lists him as single. (And yes, I did report the post. Sadly I could not find the law firm he worked for, to send them a screenshot.)

sure you can't send it down to the local police department? Dodgy

Difference between action and expressing an opinion sadly. And now he's a lawyer instead of a cop. Which was why I tried to find his law firm, sadly couldn't, but he shares a name with a super successful lawyer in business law, who isn't him. Because while saying that isn't against the law, it's not something you want your firm associated with.

Edit: So one time I reported a post to Facebook showing a noose around former President Obama's neck, calling him a "nigger", and it met content standards. I reported a post of Holocaust victims stacked like cordwood with the words, "Thank God for dead Jews" and it met content standards. This time, Facebook agreed with me that this shit has no place on their website.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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21-01-2017, 11:12 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(06-03-2016 11:20 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  If there was a value I seek to instill in my children it's compassion for others. To not see others as a means to an end, but ends in themselves.

What about your dolphins and apes ?

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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21-01-2017, 11:13 AM (This post was last modified: 21-01-2017 11:16 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
I could not give less of a fuck about what you believe. I do give a fuck about how you behave though.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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21-01-2017, 06:03 PM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(21-01-2017 11:13 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  I could not give less of a fuck about what you believe. I do give a fuck about how you behave though.

I give a fuck about people's beliefs because it saddens me to see someone reject reality in favor of fantasy.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-01-2017, 01:51 PM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(09-02-2016 09:58 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Okay, theists! I’ve got a question for you all.

Which matters more: What people believe, or how they live their lives?

Which one do you believe will have the greatest positive impact on humanity? If you, as a theist, could choose one or the other for all of mankind, which one would you choose? I’m curious to learn what you’d have people believe or by what code of behavior you’d want people to follow. And choosing to have people believe in G-d and follow the 10 commandments as a result in this belief is off the table for this little thought experiment. Belief or action, please.

And for the atheists, my expectation is that you’d favor action over belief, but if you have something else in mind, let’s hear about it.

Below is my own answer to the question:

Everything I’ve learned in Judaism indicates that action is far more important than belief. A belief in G-d is nice, and it might give someone comfort, but it’s not necessary to live a wonderful life.

We live in a physical world where we express ourselves and interact with each other physically. While our emotions may not be physical, everything that goes into generating those emotions is physical.

I’m also unaware of any scripture that requires people who believe in G-d. I also see no scriptural evidence to suggest that an afterlife will exist, or that the quality of said afterlife will depend on the belief system you held while you alive. So if fear of a terrible afterlife is lifted from the table, then all that’s left is live a wonderful life while you’re still here to enjoy it.
I guess I don't see how you "believe" something if that "belief" doesn't inform actions. So in the question of "belief" vs. "action", my answer is that "belief" is revealed by "action". For if one doesn't "act" it is easily shown that one doesn't "believe", despite professions to the contrary.
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23-01-2017, 12:57 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(22-01-2017 01:51 PM)JHaysPE Wrote:  I guess I don't see how you "believe" something if that "belief" doesn't inform actions. So in the question of "belief" vs. "action", my answer is that "belief" is revealed by "action". For if one doesn't "act" it is easily shown that one doesn't "believe", despite professions to the contrary.

I think you're a theist correct? Please tell me what actions you recommend for one who follows your faith?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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23-01-2017, 11:11 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(22-01-2017 01:51 PM)JHaysPE Wrote:  I guess I don't see how you "believe" something if that "belief" doesn't inform actions. So in the question of "belief" vs. "action", my answer is that "belief" is revealed by "action". For if one doesn't "act" it is easily shown that one doesn't "believe", despite professions to the contrary.
The answer to that is very simple. Not all beliefs are equally consequential (or claim to be, or are perceived to be).

I believe for example that based on a news item I happened across recently, there is a secular meditation group which will start meeting in my town on Saturday mornings. I believe this, but have no intention of acting on it, because I don't find such practices helpful to me personally, and I have other commitments on Saturday mornings, plus I'm not interested. It is possible that the news item was mistaken or "fake" but it is of little consequence one way or the other to me, so the bar for me to afford belief to that is low, along with the desire to "act on" it -- particularly to "prove" my belief to some impertinent fool who demands that I do so.

We believe all sorts of things about matters that we are indifferent to, or things that we don't see as mattering much, or that we are entirely incurious about.

So no, actions do not demonstrate belief and lack of actions do not demonstrate unbelief. What they DO demonstrate, is the level of interest / enthusiasm and perceived consequences of believing or not believing.
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