Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
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10-02-2016, 07:57 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(10-02-2016 07:46 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(10-02-2016 06:40 AM)morondog Wrote:  The starry eyed wunderkinder who make up this collection of space cadets believe that the power of love will drive Satan out of your sin-blackened heart. Rolleyes They just have to show you *enough* love. Meaning pamphlets and invitations to pray with them obviously. Not the dirty sexy love. If they were offering dirty sexy love I'd definitely consider joining.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Dirty sex might actually sway me. Yes

Mmmmm.... dirty sex.....

Dirty sex? Ooooooh, mud wrestling. Tongue

I think xtians like sex to be a dirty thing. What's the fun of rules if you can't break them?

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10-02-2016, 08:02 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(10-02-2016 07:57 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  
(10-02-2016 07:46 AM)Aliza Wrote:  Yeah, I'm with you on that. Dirty sex might actually sway me. Yes

Mmmmm.... dirty sex.....

Dirty sex? Ooooooh, mud wrestling. Tongue

I think xtians like sex to be a dirty thing. What's the fun of rules if you can't break them?

Yup yup. Except then then get all tied up in knots about it.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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10-02-2016, 08:03 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(10-02-2016 08:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(10-02-2016 07:57 AM)Heatheness Wrote:  Dirty sex? Ooooooh, mud wrestling. Tongue

I think xtians like sex to be a dirty thing. What's the fun of rules if you can't break them?

Yup yup. Except then then get all tied up in knots about it.

Ooooh, kinky. Big Grin

Oh, you didn't mean in a good way, did ya? Laugh out load

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10-02-2016, 09:01 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(10-02-2016 06:29 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  It always bothered me that Almighty God needs his lackeys to pester me for me to learn His Divine Truth. You'd think that someone who was omnipotent would have some better options at his disposal. What's with the sandbagging, YHWH?

Nothing says "omnipresent god" quite like needing to spread the word via door-to-door salesmen.
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10-02-2016, 09:37 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(10-02-2016 07:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-02-2016 01:11 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Both things are important as what we think influence what we do. Greek ideal of kalokagathia could be used to describe best situation.

But it touch religious matters I assume, so in this case thinking matters not - if you don't force taboos on others I couldn't care less what are your thoughts about myriads of made up gods. In such cases action matters.


It comes but I think Marx mean something else, considering the full quote:

Religious distress is at the same time the expression of real distress and the protest against real distress. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.

It's more about religion being used to dull very real pain which is result of living in uncaring society than about religious people being junkies who need another hit of god pills I would say.

Yet, he says that the god pills are blocking real happiness:
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness."

But consider the next sentence: The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.

I would say that entire quote show religion not as recreational drug to enrich boring yet comfortable life but as medicine used to dull pain of existence in which suffering is constant companion. Also people can not give up on religion without being free of conditions which create need for it.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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10-02-2016, 09:48 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(10-02-2016 09:37 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(10-02-2016 07:57 AM)Chas Wrote:  Yet, he says that the god pills are blocking real happiness:
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness."

But consider the next sentence: The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions.

I would say that entire quote show religion not as recreational drug to enrich boring yet comfortable life but as medicine used to dull pain of existence in which suffering is constant companion.

I agree - it does say that.

Quote:Also people can not give up on religion without being free of conditions which create need for it.

I disagree - I don't see that it says that at all. It is equating the demand to give it up with the demand to change the conditions.

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10-02-2016, 10:06 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(10-02-2016 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  I disagree - I don't see that it says that at all. It is equating the demand to give it up with the demand to change the conditions.

What would it mean though? That religion can't be abandoned as long as said condition exist? Or merely that saying religion should be abandoned equal saying quality of life should be improved? Or this one sentence without context means nothing?

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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10-02-2016, 10:11 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(10-02-2016 10:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  
(10-02-2016 09:48 AM)Chas Wrote:  I disagree - I don't see that it says that at all. It is equating the demand to give it up with the demand to change the conditions.

What would it mean though? That religion can't be abandoned as long as said condition exist? Or merely that saying religion should be abandoned equal saying quality of life should be improved? Or this one sentence without context means nothing?

Neither. It says that the demand to give up religion is the demand to change the conditions that enable it.

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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10-02-2016, 10:30 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
my schizoid answer is:
pragmatism matters most, beliefs are only ideas we hold to be either true or false but they are utterly useless when we won't use them to guide our actions, after all whats the point in believing anything if your not gonna act on said belief

if I believe that if I jump of a building I will fly... then I will eventually act on that belief with the expectation that I will fly, and if my belief is wrong then I will fall to a horrible, painful and bloody death and become street pizza

whether I believe anything is true or false means nothing if it can't affect any decisions I make to base my actions on

"5 elephants can stand on a pinhead ?"
you can think this is true or false... but honestly what does it even matter and who the hell honestly cares
there is not a single decision anyone can make based on it being true or false then its by any definition a useless belief
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11-02-2016, 12:54 AM
RE: Theists, which matters more: action or belief?
(10-02-2016 10:11 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(10-02-2016 10:06 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  What would it mean though? That religion can't be abandoned as long as said condition exist? Or merely that saying religion should be abandoned equal saying quality of life should be improved? Or this one sentence without context means nothing?

Neither. It says that the demand to give up religion is the demand to change the conditions that enable it.

I will say from my own observation, that the poorer and more fucked your living situation, the more religious you are, as a general rule. I guess it's that people realise they're fucked and grasp at whatever straw they can.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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