Theodicy of Divine Chastity
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11-04-2015, 08:48 PM
Re: Theodicy of Divine Chastity
Ahh. Do you believe sexual self- gratification to be against the good order of things?
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11-04-2015, 08:49 PM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2015 08:55 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Theodicy of Divine Chastity
(11-04-2015 08:37 PM)CatholicSoxFan Wrote:  One cannot give a power away and yet hold it at the same time. By "stopping the chain", God would take the power to affect the world, which is the same withholding of gift as if He didn't give it away in the first place.

The language used in the OT was such that everything was said to be caused by God. God (again delegating the power to write the OT to humans) respected that language and allowed them to speak it. God was speaking in the audience's language so to speak.

Right. You're pretty good at cooking up that nonsense. You sound like a seminarian or a priest. Don't tell me about the OT, sonny. It's my field. We (scholars) know who and why and when they wrote the OT. It had nothing to do with the gods. It's a political text. Pretty much entirely.

As for "you can't give away ... bla bla bla". Thanks for affirming for us the fact that you actually think your deity is SUBJECT to Reality, and not its master. A really omnipotent deity could do anything it wished.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-04-2015, 08:53 PM
RE: Theodicy of Divine Chastity
(11-04-2015 08:43 PM)CatholicSoxFan Wrote:  
(11-04-2015 08:37 PM)mecanna Wrote:  Do the "sinful" activities indirectly cause cancer? How does that work?

I'd hate to think that a sweet little innocent gets cancer everytime I masturbate furiously.
When an event occurs that is disordered (against the good "order" of things), it will affect other events in a disordered way. Because of the interconnection of events (similar to the "butterfly effect"), one disordered action by a created person will thus have an immense effect on the rest of the world.

But a really omnipotent deity could stop that chain, (unless of course it were not *subject* to the nature of Reality). Even saying a god "exists" refutes the reality of a god. As long as a god "exists" it is embedded in Reality, and non-existence also existed. Therefore that god could not have created the very Reality in which it MUST (ie is required to) participate, only partially.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-04-2015, 09:16 PM
RE: Theodicy of Divine Chastity
(11-04-2015 07:39 PM)CatholicSoxFan Wrote:  
(11-04-2015 07:37 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Exactly what's your gain by posting such stuff???

I don't go to the local Catholic church and mock them for being a bunch of superstitious , sexually repressed, whacked out louts.......

Maybe I'm missing out on a great opportunity??????

...

Fill me in....
Well, I am here to have a discussion on these things. This particular thread was for someone else who brought up the problem of evil, which although it was not the topic of the thread it was brought up in, I thought was still worthy of discussion, so I posted this in a new thread.

I'm an atheist on an atheist forum.
Do you actually think that the details of Catholic apologetics are of any concern to me?
Why would you?
First provide evidence for your god, then we can proceed.

Note: I tried to learn some Catholic theology on a Catholic forum but was banned. Think about it.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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11-04-2015, 09:27 PM
RE: Theodicy of Divine Chastity
(11-04-2015 08:02 PM)CatholicSoxFan Wrote:  
(11-04-2015 07:57 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  How are we supposed to know who "God" delegated power to??????

Do they come with a certificate of authenticity????

Or, are we just supposed to "believe"?????

(I'm betting on the "belief" angle --- it's how you promote utter nonsensical drivel)
I'm not sure if you understand what I was saying. The "power" in this case is the ability to affect the world indirectly through their decisions. So in a sense the reason why God rarely directly intervenes in the world is because God delegates the power to affect those aspects of the world to created persons.

That is one of the most retarded apologetic excuses I have ever heard. Why doesn't the fact that you waste your time in apologetics shine a bright light on the fantasy you all try to validate? All this in 2015 - embarrassing humans!

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
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11-04-2015, 09:48 PM
RE: Theodicy of Divine Chastity
(11-04-2015 09:27 PM)Timber1025 Wrote:  
(11-04-2015 08:02 PM)CatholicSoxFan Wrote:  I'm not sure if you understand what I was saying. The "power" in this case is the ability to affect the world indirectly through their decisions. So in a sense the reason why God rarely directly intervenes in the world is because God delegates the power to affect those aspects of the world to created persons.

That is one of the most retarded apologetic excuses I have ever heard. Why doesn't the fact that you waste your time in apologetics shine a bright light on the fantasy you all try to validate? All this in 2015 - embarrassing humans!

You have to understand they have been indoctrinated for years into this cult. They're taught to repeat that garbage by rote, like a knee-jerk reflex to a neurologist's hammer. They've heard it so often they actually think it has any real meaning. Since they actually buy it, they think it's reasonable to repeat it, and actually expect others to buy it also. Its safety in numbers.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-04-2015, 09:49 PM
RE: Theodicy of Divine Chastity
As for God's divine omnipresent will and love for his creations, we encounter the old free will versus determinism argument.
Intense world suffering of these allegedly manufactured humans cannot be seen as totally free decisions and causal factors of the suffering involved.
Problem 1: What alleged glorification does immense suffering lead to in terms of the nature of the end product.( Heaven) and why?
Problem 2: If human choice leads to suffering en masse, it cannot be separated from the responsibility of the alleged creating God. Any 'perfect' afterlife is a silly unsubstantiated play on words.
Problem 3: Humans floundering in the mystery of finite existence,often suffering greatly, are seen as harbingers of some totally unjustified divine plan.
Problem 4: We have the infinite and gracious God placing his billions of creatures in a cosmic minefield for a mega fractional period to graduate into eternal bliss. It doesn't make sense.

In sum it is impossible existentially to justify God's alleged perfection, in the Christian model, along with the modus operandi of judging his created beings in terms of an ethical model, not reflecting reality as it is reflected to those on trial.
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11-04-2015, 09:59 PM
RE: Theodicy of Divine Chastity
(11-04-2015 07:39 PM)CatholicSoxFan Wrote:  Well, I am here to have a discussion on these things. This particular thread was for someone else who brought up the problem of evil, which although it was not the topic of the thread it was brought up in, I thought was still worthy of discussion, so I posted this in a new thread.

But there was no discussion in that first post by you. It was links. That's it.

That's not how you begin a conversation. That's really how you end one.

I wouldn't make it a habit.


But as if to knock me down, reality came around
And without so much as a mere touch, cut me into little pieces

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11-04-2015, 10:12 PM (This post was last modified: 12-04-2015 07:48 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Theodicy of Divine Chastity
Just look at how idiotic this is : "Our stance is that God, being infinitely good, is infinitely opposed to evil in every form, and is acting against every evil with the fullness of his power despite appearances to the contrary. Furthermore, we believe that this relationship of perfect opposition between God and evil applies to every evil regardless of how seemingly insignificant, and that this includes all instances of innocent human suffering."

Pretty damn weak god they got there, (with it's *obviously NOT infinite power over anything*) as obviously it need to go to Plan B. Facepalm

Just more proof that religionists can compartmentalize ANY possible cognitive dissonance, to keep reason at bay, and as some of their "fathers" said (John Chrysostom, 5th century theologian and erstwhile bishop of Constantinople) : "Do you see the advantage of deceit? [...] For great is the value of deceit, provided it be not introduced with a mischievous intention. In fact action of this kind ought not to be called deceit, but rather a kind of good management, cleverness and skill, capable of finding out ways where resources fail, and making up for the defects of the mind ... And often it is necessary to deceive, and to do the greatest benefits by means of this device, whereas he who has gone by a straight course has done great mischief to the person whom he has not deceived."
Chrysostom, Treatise On The Priesthood, Book 1.
"Golden Mouth'' John is notable for his extensive commentaries on the Bible which emphasized a literal understanding of the stories. The style popular at Alexandria until then was to acknowledge an allegorical meaning of the text:
"Thus eminent ‘believers’ added falsehood to the beliefs of later generations. ‘For the best of reasons’ they ‘clarified’ obscure points, conjured up characters to speak dialogue that could have been said, invented scenarios that could have happened and borrowed extensively from a wider culture. And this all before they became the custodians of power and had real reasons for lies, inventions and counterfeits. As we shall see, god's immutable laws became as flexible as putty."
(St.?) John Chrysostom

The 5th and 6th centuries were the 'golden age' of Christian forgery. In a moment of shocking candour, the Manichean bishop and opponent of Augustine Faustus said:
"Many things have been inserted by our ancestors in the speeches of our Lord which, though put forth under his name, agree not with his faith; especially since – as already it has been often proved – these things were written not by Christ, nor [by] his apostles, but a long while after their assumption, by I know not what sort of half Jews, not even agreeing with themselves, who made up their tale out of reports and opinions merely, and yet, fathering the whole upon the names of the apostles of the Lord or on those who were supposed to follow the apostles, they maliciously pretended that they had written their lies and conceits according to them."

and Ignatius Loyola (1491-1556), the zealot for papal authority and founder of the Society of Jesus, the Jesuits, wrote:
"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides."

Weeping

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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11-04-2015, 10:30 PM (This post was last modified: 11-04-2015 10:37 PM by Billy Bob.)
RE: Theodicy of Divine Chastity
(11-04-2015 08:43 PM)CatholicSoxFan Wrote:  When an event occurs that is disordered (against the good "order" of things), it will affect other events in a disordered way. Because of the interconnection of events (similar to the "butterfly effect"), one disordered action by a created person will thus have an immense effect on the rest of the world.

My actions have an effect on the world, ok.
I must modify my behavior to effect good outcomes, ok
Blindly accepting someone else's divine revelation or an unquestioned tradition and unquestioned authority rather than using my pitiful and limited understanding from experience, knowledge, reason and examination on just what those modifications should be, nope.
I will not surrender my free will. I will not abdicate my responsibility to think and understand.

One cockroach at a time.
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