There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?
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18-11-2013, 06:24 PM
There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?
Hey, I heard someone tell me today that eventually everyone will become Christian, or some religion before they die, as when they realize its all over, they repent on their deathbed in a last ditch attempt to go to heaven. 2 atheists who come to mind as people who died atheist are Darwin who theists love to propagate the idea he had a death bed conversion, and Christopher Hitchens who we know died an atheist as his wife confirmed it.

When thinking about the topic, I always think of my personal experience. I was seriously ill 2 years back with severe peritonitis and pneumonia, I was atheist at a christian college at the time, and I remember my mother who believe in God told me that my school had been praying for me. I remember laughing and saying that it was nice they were thinking about me but praying wouldn't do fuck all. At no point in my 5 week hospital stay did a say a single prayer, despite being really ill and having to go through 4 operations. You could say I was in a foxhole, but even at the age of 18 I had the sense to know that just because your in a difficult situation, imaginary friends don't suddenly become real.

I am very confident I will die an atheist unless a God proves himself directly to me. The way I see it, I have millions of God I could potentially pray to if I was about to die, I have no reason to believe any are real, and so knowing this its pointless to even bother. If your going to die, you might as well have the courage of your convictions.

Anyone else have similar experiences and think the saying "there are no atheists in foxholes" is bullshit? Another point, if the saying was true, Christians use it as if its a good thing, but to me it just goes to show that God is for desperate people, just like 25 to lifers turn to Jesus in prison because they have fuck all left to live for and cant handle that idea.

"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." - Henry David Thoreau
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18-11-2013, 07:40 PM
RE: There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?
I was in a pretty bad car accident last month. My car actually flipped over itself several times and landed on the roof. I managed to crawl out of the open window on the passenger's side and passed out for a bit. Before I lost consciousness, the only thing that went through my mind was that I did the best I could with everything and I hoped everyone I loved would be able to get over my death quickly. No sudden belief in God was scared into me.

My uncle Emmitt, who was in the Navy, had a handful of similar stories from his service oversees. (RIP) Anybody who says there are "no atheists in foxholes" (pardon my French) can go fuck themselves.

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18-11-2013, 07:41 PM
RE: There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?
Well, my uncle fought in Vietnam, and (according to my dad), he stopped believing in God based on what he saw. Now, I have no idea at what point he stopped believing (while serving overseas or after he came back) and I have no idea what his actual beliefs are, but it's quite possible he qualifies.
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18-11-2013, 08:35 PM
RE: There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?
(18-11-2013 07:40 PM)Cephalotus Wrote:  I was in a pretty bad car accident last month. My car actually flipped over itself several times and landed on the roof. I managed to crawl out of the open window on the passenger's side and passed out for a bit. Before I lost consciousness, the only thing that went through my mind was that I did the best I could with everything and I hoped everyone I loved would be able to get over my death quickly. No sudden belief in God was scared into me.

My uncle Emmitt, who was in the Navy, had a handful of similar stories from his service oversees. (RIP) Anybody who says there are "no atheists in foxholes" (pardon my French) can go fuck themselves.

Wow, thats a good story, so you must have actually thought you were going to die, yet you still didnt turn to God, so yeah, you basically were on what you thought was your deathbed but didnt try and convert. Good on you Big Grin

Do you find that near death experience has affected you life in anyway, like make you more appreciative or worry less about the little things?
I dont feel I have benefited as much from my experience as I could have done if I really thought about the whole situation I was in. I tried not to think about it for a while after I recovered.

"Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth." - Henry David Thoreau
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18-11-2013, 08:37 PM
RE: There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?
I've only been in a few situations where I was pretty darn certain I would die. I had not one thought of god or an afterlife. The adrenaline dump, however, was a religious experience of its own. Big Grin

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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18-11-2013, 08:41 PM
RE: There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?
I understand the "No Atheist's in foxholes argument". I have been guilty of saying, to myself: "God help me!" But it's nothing more than a expression of desperation. I expect to be an atheist on my deathbed.
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18-11-2013, 08:52 PM
RE: There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?




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18-11-2013, 09:52 PM
RE: There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?
(18-11-2013 08:35 PM)TheLogicalAthiest Wrote:  Do you find that near death experience has affected you life in anyway, like make you more appreciative or worry less about the little things?
I dont feel I have benefited as much from my experience as I could have done if I really thought about the whole situation I was in. I tried not to think about it for a while after I recovered.

Actually, I think it has made me worry MORE lol. I worry that I won't have enough time to do X or Y. I guess I appreciate things slightly more. It's not as much appreciation as just feeling lucky. I SHOULD have died, but I walked away with a ton of stitches and a broken collar bone. Awesome.
I have to admit that I barely woke up in the ambulance and thought I was still in the process of dying. I couldn't hear anything or feel anything for a moment, and I wondered if maybe I was already technically dead and my mind just had a few synapses left firing. (That, btw, is a HORRIBLE thing to think!) Then I forced my body to move. When I felt the gurney straps around my legs, I took a deep breath and suddenly knew everything was going to be ok. I was alive. It was almost like being born all over again. It actually just reinforced the feeling of how precious life really is and that this is the only one I'm going to get. I had already been considering atheism for a long while then the accident pushed it to the front of my mind. So I guess I responded like...the polar opposite of how most people react to a nde. I'm weird like that.

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18-11-2013, 10:17 PM
RE: There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?
Life is a fucking foxhole...

When I was nine I was nearly killed on my bike... Don't know exactly what happened but I ended up flying head first into an iron gate. Had I hit it t a slightly different angle, or slightly faster I wouldn't be here.

As I stood leaning over a bathroom sink, watching my blood pour down the drain, I was sure I was going to die... But I wasn't a bit scared, I distinctly remember thinking "Ah well, at least it doesn't hurt so much now" before I passed out.

Next thing I was in hospital holding a towel to my head... The bleeding had stooped by then, but it was a deep gash, all the way to the bone. By then I was more pissed that my Beano T-shirt was ruined with blood, than at the injury.

A row of stitches and a "signed" photo of Buzz Lightyear later, and I was fine...

The thing is, being a Christian at the time... The idea of God had crossed my mind, thinking "maybe I ought to pray for help" that sort of thing. But a louder voice inside my head said "None of that matters right now, just concentrate on staying alive."

My conclusion is, people are only really devout when things are going well... When the shit hits the fan, reason takes over... God can wait.

That's the good old survival instinct kicking in...

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19-11-2013, 03:55 AM
RE: There are Athiests in foxholes, will you/have you been one?
There are only atheists in foxholes. Why else would they be in the foxhole if not for a big dose of doubt in ones beliefs of an afterlife, or faith in their deity to take care of its devout?

I've been in one life threatening situation where guns and their associated projectiles were involved. Wrong place, wrong time, wrong truck. With bullets wizzing over my head, I didn't turn to prayer, my only thoughts and actions were centered around getting myself the hell out of dodge and surviving. It wasn't "Save me jebus!" it was "Save yourself, stupid!".

"Good news, everyone!"
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