"There are no atheists in foxholes"
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23-02-2017, 09:50 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 09:39 AM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  Thanks for all the great resources and personal stories of veterans you know! This guy actually was in the military and has seen some pretty intense stuff, so I'm pretty sure he thinks he's an authority when it comes to the "no atheists in foxholes" comment.

Much of the military has historically drawn recruits from the poorest, least-educated (most religious) parts of the USA, and as a result tends to be pretty overwhelmingly religious.

However, it doesn't make his assertion that atheists will turn to God in times of crisis any less bullshit. Not only are there many atheist combat veterans, there are many of us here who have been through life-and-death experiences just as grave (pun intended) as combat, and remain nonbelievers.

You should be more offended at his attempt to lie to you and manipulate your emotions than you seem to be, in my opinion. I would definitely hold his feet to the fire about the things you've brought up that he is refusing to address... if he's not going to be honest and open with you, why does he think he should be granted such a gesture from you?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-02-2017, 09:51 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
If God is on your side, why exactly is a war needed? It should be over pretty much instantly.

I have a website here which discusses the issues and terminology surrounding religion and atheism. It's hopefully user friendly to all.
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23-02-2017, 09:53 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 09:01 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I suspect the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers (who refer to their member list as the "Atheists in Foxholes, in Cockpits, and on Ships") would disagree fairly vehemently.

Perhaps you could refer your pastor friend to that organization, and ask why he would lie to you in the name of Jesus?

I'll post the link below, in the plain, in case it's easier for you to cut-paste/copy to him, that way.

http://militaryatheists.org/atheists-in-foxholes/

I immediately thought of that organization when I read the thread title and I was a few seconds slower than you Rocket, but...well... great minds think alike. Yes

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He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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23-02-2017, 09:53 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 09:39 AM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  Thanks for all the great resources and personal stories of veterans you know! This guy actually was in the military and has seen some pretty intense stuff, so I'm pretty sure he thinks he's an authority when it comes to the "no atheists in foxholes" comment.

That's not mutually exclusive. As there are atheists in foxholes there certainly are theists in foxholes. One's own anecdotal evidence and experience however doesn't serve for making a universal claim.
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23-02-2017, 09:58 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 09:51 AM)Robvalue Wrote:  If God is on your side, why exactly is a war needed? It should be over pretty much instantly.

Cause god is one the side of faction that won. Before winning nobody know who has Almighty favor.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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23-02-2017, 10:04 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 09:39 AM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  Thanks for all the great resources and personal stories of veterans you know! This guy actually was in the military and has seen some pretty intense stuff, so I'm pretty sure he thinks he's an authority when it comes to the "no atheists in foxholes" comment.

Maybe, he is the one who "chose". He chose to let someone think for him ... to tell him what to believe.

It is possible that, that very surrender, is what got him through being able to do the stuff he was forced to do - stuff that possibly went against his own grain.

Fear - even the tiniest bit, can make people do things and cling to the most irrational notions. Anything to just get through - to get past the fear. Fear can be a great tool - a defense mechanism. The trick is to not hold on too tightly to the things grasped for in desperation.

He could probably let that shit go and he would be a healthier and happier human being. That would be his own "choice". And it would go against his current grain.

He is caught up in his own circular reasoning everywhere he turns in his life.

Just tell him you are relieved to be atheist.
He might be able to understand relief. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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23-02-2017, 10:04 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"

"Most people are other people.
Their thoughts are someone else's opinions,
their lives a mimicry,
their passions a quotation."
-Oscar Wilde
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23-02-2017, 10:06 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
LWF - when it does that, it usually means you've messed up closing a tag, usually a quote-tag. Add a [/quote]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-02-2017, 10:10 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 09:50 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(23-02-2017 09:39 AM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  Thanks for all the great resources and personal stories of veterans you know! This guy actually was in the military and has seen some pretty intense stuff, so I'm pretty sure he thinks he's an authority when it comes to the "no atheists in foxholes" comment.

Much of the military has historically drawn recruits from the poorest, least-educated (most religious) parts of the USA, and as a result tends to be pretty overwhelmingly religious.

However, it doesn't make his assertion that atheists will turn to God in times of crisis any less bullshit. Not only are there many atheist combat veterans, there are many of us here who have been through life-and-death experiences just as grave (pun intended) as combat, and remain nonbelievers.

You should be more offended at his attempt to lie to you and manipulate your emotions than you seem to be, in my opinion. I would definitely hold his feet to the fire about the things you've brought up that he is refusing to address... if he's not going to be honest and open with you, why does he think he should be granted such a gesture from you?

Wow, you're totally right. He's also gotten very personal with me by bringing up some of my family's tragedies. My brothers death, my sister getting raped...

Firstly, he's going into this conversation as if I secretly believe in god. Secondly, he had a plan for this conversation the whole time. He never wanted to hear what I had to say; he wanted to share his testimony.

I've already destroyed him as far as my reasoning skills go, but I'm done being nice about it.

"Most people are other people.
Their thoughts are someone else's opinions,
their lives a mimicry,
their passions a quotation."
-Oscar Wilde
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23-02-2017, 10:16 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 10:10 AM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  I've already destroyed him as far as my reasoning skills go, but I'm done being nice about it.

Lol. Invite him here... Evil_monster

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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