"There are no atheists in foxholes"
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23-02-2017, 10:17 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
If you'll take a piece of free advice, worth every penny... he's probably waiting for you to get mad about his manipulation (which he doesn't see that way, I'm sure) so he can either claim that you're reacting emotionally because you're face-to-face with The Truth™, or say you're just An Angry Atheist™ whom he can dismiss.

Remain calm and rational, and be as nice as you can be while simply insisting that he maintain the same level of decorum you are showing him. Force him to be the bad guy; don't let him turn you into it.

Edit to Add: It's easier said than done, I know. My own pastor was a military chaplain, and pulled that umbrage when I reacted rather angrily to his overt attempts to manipulate both the facts and my emotions. The ramifications with my family over the incident reverberate to this day, over 20 years later.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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23-02-2017, 10:26 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 10:17 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  If you'll take a piece of free advice, worth every penny... he's probably waiting for you to get mad about his manipulation (which he doesn't see that way, I'm sure) so he can either claim that you're reacting emotionally because you're face-to-face with The Truth™, or say you're just An Angry Atheist™ whom he can dismiss.

Remain calm and rational, and be as nice as you can be while simply insisting that he maintain the same level of decorum you are showing him. Force him to be the bad guy; don't let him turn you into it.

Edit to Add: It's easier said than done, I know. My own pastor was a military chaplain, and pulled that umbrage when I reacted rather angrily to his overt attempts to manipulate both the facts and my emotions. The ramifications with my family over the incident reverberate to this day, over 20 years later.

Great advice. It's not really my nature to fly off the handle anyway. I just hesitate about being really frank about my views.

I've also had that done to me. Near the end of my Christianity I got irritated and yelled at my parents (I was an adult) and they told me that I probably was overwhelmed with guilt because I was having premarital sex. Lol meanwhile, my teenage sister was pregnant.

"Most people are other people.
Their thoughts are someone else's opinions,
their lives a mimicry,
their passions a quotation."
-Oscar Wilde
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23-02-2017, 10:29 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 10:26 AM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  Great advice. It's not really my nature to fly off the handle anyway. I just hesitate about being really frank about my views.

I don't even see any real reason to engage with that guy at all. He's got his anecdotal experience fueled by his life as a pastor. He won't move, he won't budge. And here's the beauty of it. You don't need him to. All you need is to inore him unless he actively tries to influence your life.
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23-02-2017, 10:32 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 10:17 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  If you'll take a piece of free advice, worth every penny... he's probably waiting for you to get mad about his manipulation (which he doesn't see that way, I'm sure) so he can either claim that you're reacting emotionally because you're face-to-face with The Truth™, or say you're just An Angry Atheist™ whom he can dismiss.

Remain calm and rational, and be as nice as you can be while simply insisting that he maintain the same level of decorum you are showing him. Force him to be the bad guy; don't let him turn you into it.

Edit to Add: It's easier said than done, I know. My own pastor was a military chaplain, and pulled that umbrage when I reacted rather angrily to his overt attempts to manipulate both the facts and my emotions. The ramifications with my family over the incident reverberate to this day, over 20 years later.

I agree. Once the manipulator reaches a certain level of insistence, they ramp up their agenda to include the mark's "fight or flight" response.

For these guys, their whole life has become a house of games. It can be interesting and informative to play along for a while. Just make sure you don't find yourself actually playing ... or you will be played.

I hate knowing this shit. Dodgy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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23-02-2017, 10:34 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 10:29 AM)abaris Wrote:  
(23-02-2017 10:26 AM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  Great advice. It's not really my nature to fly off the handle anyway. I just hesitate about being really frank about my views.

I don't even see any real reason to engage with that guy at all. He's got his anecdotal experience fueled by his life as a pastor. He won't move, he won't budge. And here's the beauty of it. You don't need him to. All you need is to inore him unless he actively tries to influence your life.

Yeah, I usually avoid these type of conversations, but he was very persistent. Also, I kind of like the feeling of standing up for my views. It may just be an ego thing for me, but I feel like this is practice for when someone I care about wants to have this conversation. Lol

"Most people are other people.
Their thoughts are someone else's opinions,
their lives a mimicry,
their passions a quotation."
-Oscar Wilde
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23-02-2017, 10:39 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 10:34 AM)LadyWallFlower Wrote:  It may just be an ego thing for me, but I feel like this is practice for when someone I care about wants to have this conversation. Lol

Maybe I'm thinking too far out of the box, since this kind of conversation virtually never comes up where I live. As I said before, I don't even know if my brother and his family are in any way religious. I suspect my sister in law to be into new ageism, but that's just a suspicion. We never talk about things like that. There's so much else to talk about. Which also goes for friends and collegues.
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23-02-2017, 10:46 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
Amazing how a quote so easily proven to be false can become so overused.

I'm an atheist and always have been, I will have been in the military 15 years when I get out in May, I've been in foxholes. The statement is not true, simple as that.

'Murican Canadian
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23-02-2017, 11:13 AM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
... Wrote:Today he ended his message with: "there are no atheists in foxholes, they always end up praying to a god they don't believe in- why is that?"

Could you, please ask him something for me? My question is this:" how do you know this?"

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
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23-02-2017, 12:56 PM
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
There are more atheists in the military than religionists it seems...
—Segal, David R; Wechsler Segal, Mady (2004). America’s Military Population, Population Bulletin 59 (4): 25, Population Reference Bureau, Washington, DC.

BTW, when I was first in the Aussie military, I told them I was an atheist—so they could stamp my "religion" on my dog tags. They had nothing for atheist, so I ended up with OPD on my tags... other Protestant denomination LOL.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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23-02-2017, 01:13 PM (This post was last modified: 23-02-2017 01:18 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: "There are no atheists in foxholes"
(23-02-2017 12:56 PM)SYZ Wrote:  There are more atheists in the military than religionists it seems...
—Segal, David R; Wechsler Segal, Mady (2004). America’s Military Population, Population Bulletin 59 (4): 25, Population Reference Bureau, Washington, DC.

BTW, when I was first in the Aussie military, I told them I was an atheist—so they could stamp my "religion" on my dog tags. They had nothing for atheist, so I ended up with OPD on my tags... other Protestant denomination LOL.

My dog tag read NOPREF back in the USN in the 80's. Think they actually have ATHEIST now.

I think to myself, self, who would you rather have with you when the shit hits the fan, the fool who's gonna break out the rosary and start fiddling with beads or the dude who realizes if we don't do do something drastic right fucking now we gonna die?

#sigh
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